March 15, 2024


Quantum Leap | Season Finale with JJ Lendl

Quantum Leap | Season Finale with JJ Lendl
Fate's Wide Wheel: A Quantum Leap Podcast
Quantum Leap | Season Finale with JJ Lendl

Mar 15 2024 | 01:39:53


Show Notes


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In this conversation, Sam Fain and JJ Lindell discuss the two-episode season finale of Quantum Leap, 'As the World Burns' and 'Against Time.' They express their appreciation for the emotional core of the episodes and the strong performances by the actors. They highlight the spiritual themes and the connection between characters. They also discuss the creative and inventive direction of the episodes, considering the limitations of the production. Overall, they find the finale to be fantastic and a testament to the unique nature of Quantum Leap. The conversation methodically reviewed the episode and identified several principal themes. These themes include the powerful scenes between Hannah and Ben, the Shakespearean nature of Gideon's revenge, the importance of empathy and helping others, the presence of Easter eggs throughout the episode, the revelation of Beth's knowledge and role in the project, the development of Addison's agency and readiness to be a Leaper, and the intentional and purposeful storytelling throughout the season. The ending of the season was praised for its emotional impact and the clear intent behind the narrative. In this final part of the conversation, Sam and JJ discuss the potential for future seasons of the Quantum Leap revival. They express their excitement about the possibilities and the character-driven nature of the show. They also touch on the importance of consent and the need for character development in the potential romantic relationship between Ben and Addison. They emphasize the importance of supporting the show by streaming it on Peacock and encourage listeners to ignore clickbait articles and focus on the viewing numbers. They also mention upcoming interviews and future discussions about Star Wars.


00:00 Introduction and Patreon Shoutouts
01:12 The Finale and Listener Support
04:47 Discussion of the Season Finale
08:00 Review of "As the World Burns"
13:58 Review of "Against Time"
27:13 Discussion of the Scene between Ben and Jeffrey
34:22 Discussion of the Emotional Core of the Episode
36:26 Discussion of the Final Scene
36:50 The Scene in Episode 212 and 213
40:42 Gideon Ridge and the Revenge Tragedy
44:15 The Lesson in Empathy
46:30 Against Time and the Empathy Engine
49:03 Easter Eggs
51:39 The Reveal of Beth and Janice's Motivation
55:22 Home is a Person
58:09 The Ending and the Possibilities
01:09:11 The Possibilities and Character Drama
01:10:11 Challenges of Expressing Love in Different Leaps
01:10:28 The Elephant in the Room: Consent and Comfort
01:11:16 Expanding the Boundaries of Quantum Leap
01:12:36 The Desire for the Story to Continue
01:13:49 Uncertainty of Renewal
01:14:06 No Decision Made Yet
01:15:14 The Complexity of Network Programming
01:16:02 Networks' Catch-Up Game
01:17:12 Looking Beyond Ratings
01:18:03 Limited Pilot Orders
01:19:25 The Importance of Supporting the Show
01:20:21 Streaming on Peacock
01:22:11 The Impact of Moving the Show
01:23:07 The Uncertainty of Renewal
01:24:07 Future Plans: Classic Series Reviews
01:25:09 JJ's Classic Episode Posters
01:26:38 The Importance of Physical Media
01:27:07 Restoring Original Music in Shows
01:28:08 The Changing Landscape of Television Ownership
01:29:11 The Importance of Archiving Shows
01:30:01 Talking Star Wars
01:31:00 The Emotional Investment in Star Wars
01:32:00 The Divisiveness of The Phantom Menace
01:33:08 The Beginning of the Story
01:34:16 The Emotional Connection to the Prequels
01:35:16 The Last Hurrah for Our Generation
01:36:03 JJ's Star Wars Artwork and Giveaways
01:37:18 Supporting the Show and Merchandise
01:38:09 Expressing Gratitude and Leap Responsibly

View Full Transcript

Episode Transcript

Sam Fain (they/them) (00:00) Hello fellow travelers, welcome to Fates Wide Wheel. I am your host, Sam Fain, and I am joined this week, once again, thankfully, gratefully, by none other than JJ Lindell. JJ, how are you? J.J. Lendl (00:12) It's it's been too long. I feel like it's been ages since I've been in the Fates wide -wheel hot seat But I'm glad to be here Feeling a little congested. So, you know, I apologize if I if I sound like a bit less than 100 % locally Maybe I'll just go for more of a sedated sound Kind of just sort of Sam Fain (they/them) (00:21) hahahaha J.J. Lendl (00:42) in a different tone for everybody this week. Yeah, see how long that lasts. Sam Fain (they/them) (00:44) Exactly. There's nothing wrong with that. No, I hear you. I'm feeling a little run down myself. You know, I think as everybody knows, my plate has been quite full recently. But I'm thrilled to be here and be doing this with you. This is what the public wants, JJ. All right. The public has spoken. I have heard it. People have asked, where is JJ? When are you guys going to talk about? J.J. Lendl (01:04) All right. Sam Fain (they/them) (01:12) the finale together, and that's going to happen right now. But but before we talk about the finale, I want to do something because it's been a while since I had the chance to do this. And I feel like now is the perfect time for it, quite frankly, because there is not one, not two, but three new Patreon members that I want to give shout outs to. And in the process, I figure I'm just going to give shout outs to the whole crew. So real quick, here we go. We'll start with the newest Mr. Tom Saliva. I hope I pronounced that right. Caroline Wolf, Lee Jamilkowski, Sophie Gilbert, Mercury Beat, the mental health warrior from Michigan, Max Blaska, QLP, James Gold, Christina Geist, Brackmang, Heather Strabiak, Stupot 47, Lady Eternal, Carolyn, Michelle Hoffman, Jason Geist, Joanne Bartlett, Adrian Sal, Brian McDreadful, Damon Sugamelli, Larry Trujillo, Amy Holtkamp, Christopher Redmond, Oddly Specific with Audra, Dana Bias. Thank you all so, so much. I am so blown over by the support for the show in that respect. You helped to... Keep the lights on, to say the very least. The support from all of the viewers and listeners and folks that are taking the time to comment or send emails like one, Steven Palmer. Thank you, Steven, for your lovely email. I appreciate it. Thank you, Max, for your recent messages as well. Everyone that's taken the time to stop over and comment on the YouTube videos, all of the new subscribers on YouTube, all of the new followers on Instagram, I cannot thank you enough for the support. It's definitely the type of thing that helps to... J.J. Lendl (02:53) it. Sam Fain (they/them) (02:57) keep me going when there are so many other things going on and in those weeks when I'm literally recording close to 10 hours worth of interviews and reviews, et cetera, et cetera. It's always nice to be able to have that support and patrons, you genuinely make it all possible. I don't have to pay for any hosting fees or anything like that because of you. So thank you so, so, so much for that support. And if you would like to become a patron, Like I said, I truly appreciate the support. It allows me to do this. But before you do, let's right some wrongs. All right. I want you to take a look around your community. I want you to see if there's some way that you can help, whether that's volunteering your time, donating some canned goods, some gloves, a clothes drive, clothing drive, whatever the case may be, or if you're in the position to do so, financial donation. In the world at large, of course, the Trevor Project, they are doing essential work in supporting trans youth in this country. And obviously, if you read the headlines, you know how incredibly important that is right now, and the dramatic increase in calls that they have received just over the past couple of weeks. So will always be a cause near and dear to my heart, and they certainly deserve our support. Doctors Without Borders. On a global scale, the work they do is so incredibly important and vital, sometimes in horrific circumstances, quite frankly, most of the time under horrific circumstances. They are one of the finest charitable organizations in the world. You can look it up It is true and of course in tribute to our dear friend Matt Dale I would also like to mention the Epilepsy Society in the UK They've been misattributing at the Epilepsy Foundation UK because I think that that was something that I had read In association with Matt at one point, but it's actually the Epilepsy Society You know a donation in Matt's name would be lovely and awesome and a wonderful way to honor his memory If after all that, of course, you still want to support Fates Wide Wheel and you're still in a position to do so, head over to patreon .com slash Fates Wide Wheel. You can support at any level and you will gain access to all of the behind the scenes videos with JJ about the posters, as well as exclusive early access to interview videos that are going to be coming out soon. For instance, Patreon subscribers were able to watch the Raymond Lee interview two days before it dropped on the YouTube channel. So there will be opportunities to do that again in the very, very, very near. future. And you will also get a shout out on Fates Wide Wheel for new Patreon subscribers. And of course, every once in a while, I'll just shout you out anyway, just for the heck of it, because I just love you so much and I appreciate it. So thank you so, so much. Whether it's on the video or audio or in the show notes, you'll see your name and you'll have my gratitude in all humility, quite frankly, because it is amazing to me still that people support the show in that way. So thank you, thank you, thank you. I appreciate it. I appreciate you and making this endeavor possible to continue is something that some people may question. But for the most part, I'd like to think that it's a good thing and that we're spreading a little joy, a little bit of happiness, and we're getting to talk about things that we love. Right, JJ? J.J. Lendl (06:11) I 100 % agree with every statement and sentiment. Yes, wonderful. Sam Fain (they/them) (06:13) No. And of course, you know, why save it for the end? You can also always head over to jjlindle .com and whether you go directly to his storefront or you go to the Fates Wide Wheel storefront, there is just a plethora of incredible artwork and merchandise, some associated, right? Me too, look at that. J.J. Lendl (06:23) Thank you. I got I got little wood. I actually wore wood here. Yeah, look at that. Sam Fain (they/them) (06:39) a secret history, Fates wide wheel hat. You got all sorts of great stuff. And of course, it's not just quantum leap because, you know, here at Fates wide wheel, we can go anywhere we like, any when we like. And so there's lots of other great, great, great stuff over there, whether you're looking for some Star Wars, some Star Trek's, Mechs files, et cetera. There's going to be some other cool stuff there soon. I'm pretty sure as well. Right. Right. Right. And you could just walk right into your target and pick up a Star Wars puzzle. Right. There are puzzles. J.J. Lendl (06:59) I think that's safe to say, yes. Yeah, if they're there, yeah. Yes. That is true. Sam Fain (they/them) (07:08) with your art. So stay tuned towards the end of the show. We're gonna talk a little bit more about that actually, believe it or not. And we got some exciting stuff brewing as been requested by a couple of wonderful, wonderful patrons and commenters. So stay tuned for that. But before we talk about anything else, look. J.J. Lendl (07:27) you Sam Fain (they/them) (07:31) the main event tonight as far as I'm concerned. And again, this is something that has been requested by more than two people. And that is they want to know, JJ, what you thought of the two episode, two hour season finale of Quantum Leap as the world burns and against time. Now, your incredible, incredible posters aside, which have gotten rave reviews, mind you. Yeah, I would love to know what you thought. We'll go ahead and start with. J.J. Lendl (07:32) you Thank you. Sam Fain (they/them) (08:00) as the world burns. I thought it was fantastic episode for many reasons. People know that you can hear my review. I want to hear what you think. J.J. Lendl (08:09) Well, first of all, thank you for anybody who was interested in what I have to say. That boggles my mind. And it was very nice to see the positive reactions to the poster artwork for the episodes, especially because I was pulling double duty that week since they debuted on the same day. So I'll start by saying this. Generally, I will only watch these episodes once, just because of my schedule. I got a lot of things going on. Then, of know, of course, after the fact, I'll try to get back and watch them again. Both of these episodes I immediately watched again. Because I thought that they were peak series storytelling. And we can start with the first hour of the two part finale, which I don't know was envisioned as being a two part finale. Initially. Sam Fain (they/them) (09:08) No, yeah, it was not. It was not initially envisioned that way. J.J. Lendl (09:12) But it worked so well in that format, I found, even though it very much was one adventure after another adventure, but they were so linked. But you could say that about the whole season, and I think that, I guess I would start off by saying that one of the things that impressed me most about both episodes was how they brought so much of what we had seen. in the previous 11 episodes together, and of course from season one. But as the world burns, I thought was strong in all of those typical quantum leap columns that you would want it to be strong in. It was a premise which hit the ground running. It's like, you know, Ben is a firefighter. Okay, got it. Sam Fain (they/them) (09:46) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (10:11) And then, of course, immediately we work in the mythology of the season, which is Hannah. And so right from the start, we're bringing in these two really strong story points, which is the leap itself, and then working in the overarching theme of the season. And I just, I really... Sam Fain (they/them) (10:13) you you you J.J. Lendl (10:39) I really liked the episode. I was really impressed by aspects of the episode that I wasn't necessarily looking to be impressed by. There was a lot of really great special effects in the episode that... And special effects that might have not been clocked by a lot of viewers. So, you know, they spend a lot of time shooting on the universal backlot for Quantum Leap. excessively, which is kind of fun because they you know, it's almost like they have a checklist of different places in the backlog that they want to shoot and You know from my perspective I watch these episodes and knowing that I'm going to create poster art for them I'm looking for references and I've talked about this before in in the behind -the -scenes patreon videos so for for as the world burns Sam Fain (they/them) (11:22) you J.J. Lendl (11:37) I was interested in reference for the Excelsior building, which they allude to. So I'm looking at this building and I'm trying to figure out, okay, where is this building on the back lot? And I realized that the base of the building that they use is on the back lot. It's the Macy's building, which is part of that New York block. But there's this shot where they... Sam Fain (they/them) (11:38) you Mmm. J.J. Lendl (12:02) Start at the top of the building where you see the fire and they pan down to the front and that's that's all It's fake. It's you know, that building does it does not exist on the lot like that and it's completely beautiful seamless shot into the action of the firefighters on the ground and the crowds around there and you know, if you go back and watch the episode and It's such a wonderful establishing shot of a building that doesn't exist and it's one of those special Sam Fain (they/them) (12:22) Right. J.J. Lendl (12:31) effects that I love because it's a special effect that isn't a special effect. Like you don't think of it as a special effect. It looks like they were shooting on location at this tall apartment building and just pan down to the front, which they didn't. The building doesn't exist on the back lot. So it was things like that in the episode which really blew my mind since I had to get into that a little bit to be able to find some reference imagery for the posters. getting a little bit nitty gritty here, but just to show you how taken I was with this particular hour of television. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I thought that that was really cool. I just think that the emotional arc of this season was... Sam Fain (they/them) (13:01) Yeah. Well, and it's made it's made all the more remarkable by the fact that they were under such a time crunch, you know, the turnaround time on these episodes was was so tight. And and I agree. No, I think it's wonderful. I'm glad you pointed that out. J.J. Lendl (13:28) so expertly tied up. And you know, you have to, you know, I think part of the bow was tied up in this episode because while we see Hannah again at the very end of 13, this is sort of the climax of that relationship between her and Ben. And it's sort of the emotional climax because something that... Sam Fain (they/them) (13:35) Thank you. Yeah. Thank you. J.J. Lendl (13:58) the show does, which I think is genius, is it kind of shifts to another relationship, which is between Ben and her son and makes that a big focus of the final hour, which is something that, you know, unless you're Sam, because Sam absolutely knew something was gonna go on with that, you wouldn't have even be thinking about that. Sam Fain (they/them) (14:11) No. Right. J.J. Lendl (14:28) So, I loved it. I thought it was great. I thought that the... and I've said this previously for the last couple of episodes that aired when we talked about them, is that I feel like the show has really found the sweet spot in terms of the leap parts of the episodes and the project parts of the episodes. And these two episodes were such a wonderful culmination of that mastery because everything is connected at this point. Sam Fain (they/them) (14:57) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (14:57) And, you know, what's happening in the past is affecting the future. And there's a lot of back and forth communication there. And especially when things are starting to go wonky at the project, it's of course going to affect what's going on at the leap. And, you know, in this episode, immediately it's, we're dealing with the aftermath of Magic announcing that he is resigning from the project. And so, you know, that's, that's affecting. Sam Fain (they/them) (15:21) Right. J.J. Lendl (15:27) the way that Addison is handling the leap, it's affecting everything that's happening at HQ, and I just felt like the script was so tight for this episode. And at the same time, the acting just really elevated it. And you're gonna know the actor's name, but I don't. The actor who plays Hannah's son, but Wyatt Parker. And I - Sam Fain (they/them) (15:47) Thank you. Jeffrey, oh yeah, Wyatt Parker. J.J. Lendl (15:57) I just thought that he, you know, in a show of wonderful performances, like he just shined through so well. You know, the scene where he and Banner are in the apartment and they have to climb up. Sam Fain (they/them) (16:02) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (16:11) do the jump. It was so impactful and I just thought it was so well played and you know in the moment and again the special effects, the direction, everything was there. What I'd say is especially for that It doesn't feel like network television to me. It feels like you're watching something that is on a premium streaming channel. And that's like a big compliment as far as I'm concerned because those kind of shows are produced under very different circumstances. I was watching... Sam Fain (they/them) (16:33) Yeah. Right. More money, more time. J.J. Lendl (16:57) Yes, exactly. I was watching some behind -the -scenes stuff recently for House of the Dragon, which is a show on HBO, which has a kajillion dollar budget. And they were talking about how, you know, we decided to start production on the season by doing some scenes from episode six of Tim. And it's like, good for you guys. Like... Sam Fain (they/them) (17:26) Right, right. J.J. Lendl (17:27) Because they've got all their scripts written, they've got all their story points, they've been in pre -production for probably over a year, building sets and doing pre -vis and all the things that if you're on a network show, you are not gonna have a chance to do. I mean, you're working on scripts a little bit ahead of time, but... You're not conceiving of a complete season of scripts prior to the start of production. It's just not the way that it works. And for them to be able to bring everything together and just have the mastery of that storytelling, just sort of make it seem like they were, you know, under some of the circumstances of House of the Dragon where they're like, you know, we started with this scene because we knew that, you know, it would be good for the actors. because later on this would happen and earlier this would happen and yeah, I that that would be a one of the bigger compliments that I would pay these the season overall but certainly like the culmination of these last two episodes Sam Fain (they/them) (18:37) Yeah, I think that that's a astute observation, quite frankly, because I've remarked a couple of times that the show genuinely just feels like none other on television. And I've kind of hedged before by adding it's unlike anything on network television. But yeah, I feel like it really has grown beyond that. And it is a situation where you look at the show and you think, if they had more time and more money. You know, it would be it would it would equal it would rival any of these, you know, other other shows. And so the fact that they're able to do what they're able to do under the circumstances, especially considering the circumstances of season two. I mean, you think about the fact that, you know, they had no break. They were working. They were basically working on season two while season one was still being wrapped up, you know, in shot. They they they start filming season two almost immediately after season one wraps. And then, you know, midst of like, you know, filming the seventh episode, it becomes clear that there's going to be a writer's strike. Episode eight is filmed without writers. And then they go away. And while they are gone, there's the sag strike, you know, there's all of this turmoil, they come back and the show starts airing even before the strikes resolve, obviously, and J.J. Lendl (19:54) Thank you. Sam Fain (they/them) (20:01) almost immediately the show is met with a claim. That there are fans that weren't on board for season one that are now on board for season two. There are people that followed the show through season one and enjoyed season one, loved season one even, and are seeing season two as being better in every way. And then, what, four or five episodes in, it's like, okay, the strikes are over, we gotta get back to work. J.J. Lendl (20:20) Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (20:28) And we're going to, you know, we got to be in front of a camera in like two weeks, you know, or whatever it was. So it's like all of a sudden, yeah, you're in a situation where you have to write the final five of the season and get them filmed as quickly as possible because, oh, yeah, after, you know, episode eight airs, you're going to come back, you know, in in like eight weeks. So. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (20:29) All right. Thank you. Yeah, it's so impressive. And I just felt, man, they're just running on all cylinders for the last five. And especially like, listen, like the night that the final two episodes aired, something that I was really happy to see was how long, you know, Quantum Leap was trending online, was trending on Twitter and... Sam Fain (they/them) (21:16) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (21:22) these episodes got universal acclaim. Everybody that I saw was just sort of gobsmacked at how good they were. And not because what came before wasn't good, but I think that, I think people had pretty high expectations, but they were surpassed. And it was just, it's so nice to see that. And it's nice to, you know, you believe in a show and you champion a show and then you just see the show in its full stride. here with towards the end of the season and it you know it it's a good feeling like as a as just a fan it's it's such a great feeling because you you believe in a show and you you know you're really invested in the characters and the storytelling and to just see the creative team behind it to just like you know just get like all 10s for for for Sam Fain (they/them) (21:54) Yeah. Right. J.J. Lendl (22:21) for the Olympic dive, it's really great. I've gotten away from specifics here for the episodes that have gotten really mad. Sam Fain (they/them) (22:27) That's right. I have a couple of questions if you want to focus stuff. So I'm curious, you know, one of my favorite scenes for As the World Burns was the scene between Addison and Hannah in the hallway when Hannah's trapped under the rubble. I would love to get your thoughts on that scene and the work between Caitlin and Eliza. J.J. Lendl (22:31) Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think about you know, I Think about it two ways you think about from the character perspective because you've got you know, Hannah basically like putting her she's she's in this incredibly life -threatening situation and she has got a It just says so much about the character where she's got to put herself out there to someone who she kind of has to trust exists Sam Fain (they/them) (23:02) Thank you. J.J. Lendl (23:20) and who she can't see. Which is incredible. It's just such an incredible sort of premise of a scene where it's like, you know, my time traveling boyfriend's imaginary friend is here and I need to impart them with this information. And then, you know, on the acting side of it, you know, to be able to... Sam Fain (they/them) (23:21) Right. Yup. J.J. Lendl (23:50) You know, because obviously, like, to play a scene like that, uh, Caitlin is in front of you. Like, you can, you can see Caitlin, but to be able to play it in a way where you're just sort of having to trust that the person is there. And then of course, on the other side of it, and it's something that, you know, Dean Stockwell got to do a lot in the original series where, you know, I can't remember how many times Sam was like, Sam, could you just go and be with them? And, you know, Sam Fain (they/them) (23:59) Right? J.J. Lendl (24:18) I would be like, you know, they can't see me. He I know, just go and just be with them. It'll make me feel better. He's like, okay, okay. And you know, you're trying to give a pep talk to somebody who is, who cannot see you, who doesn't know you exist. This kind of took that traditional quantum leap scene and turned it on its head because you have someone who is in that time, who is trusting that this person is there and you're sort of giving them the pep talk as you're being. Sam Fain (they/them) (24:24) Right. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (24:47) crushed under the remains of the building ceiling. And so it was interesting to see, it was kind of for me like seeing those typical scenes where Al is kind of being there for someone. And Addison is being there for her, but Hannah has a mission with this movie. She's like, I need you to see this and I need you to understand these things. Sam Fain (they/them) (24:54) Right. J.J. Lendl (25:16) And the things that I'm talking about have to do with this really particular quantum equation, but they also really have to do with the relationship that you and Ben have. And you folks, this is what I thought was really interesting about the entire dynamic that was created over the course of the season, and particularly in this episode. Hannah has such, she's in a position to have such sage wisdom for these other characters. Sam Fain (they/them) (25:27) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (25:44) because the other characters are like living on fast forward. Everything is happening to them so fast. Everything is one day after the other. Hannah has had 30 years to parse out all of the information that she's gotten, all the interactions that she's had with Ben, every story, every anecdote that he has been able to tell her in the short times that they've had together. And she's been able to sort of ruminate. on that stuff. And the Hannah that we meet in As the World Burns is a Hannah who has been able to sort of take all of this angst, this, you know, this unsettled sort of emotional information that she's gotten from Ben and put it into perspective for Ben and for Addison in a way that they couldn't do for themselves because... everything's at breakneck speed for them. And for Hannah, it's like she's in slow motion and she's able to sort of take everything and process it and give them the gift of almost hindsight, which I think is pretty powerful. So, and I really felt that in that scene as well. And of course, the other side of that scene that I really liked was the project. Sam Fain (they/them) (26:47) Yeah. Sure. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (27:13) where they're seeing this equation come together and you're sort of like, oh, okay, we're getting the pieces together for what we were working on. And you just see all this sort of storytelling come together in this wonderful climax that gives you so much hope, which is sort of like one of the tenets of the show, right? So I just thought that that really worked all well together. I'm curious what your thoughts were of that scene. What did you take from it? Sam Fain (they/them) (27:13) Yeah. Right, right. Well, I mean, I thought I think you hit on some beautiful points and some things that I hadn't necessarily thought about in that way yet, in particular about Hannah having added context and the benefit of hindsight. Because for her, like you said, you know, it's been decades since she first met Ben. And she's had time to think about their interactions and what he's shared with her about what you know what. life has been like at the project and what his relationship with Addison is like, et cetera. And she's also, of course, had time to work on this theory and this code. For me, I think that the emotional core of the scene was just so incredibly strong. And the work by both actors in the moment was so honest and thrilling in that way that when you see two people so connected to the story that they're telling and the truth that they have to give to that moment. It just, it takes you away, right? It engages you in the way that you want any piece of work to engage you. We were talking off mic about something else, another piece of art that unfortunately does not, it did not do that for us. And... And so when you have this, you know, this moment that is so incredibly important to the fabric of the season and for it to, you know, just to hit every right note on every level from the way that it's shot to to the writing to the performances, to the editing, to the way that, you know, the storytelling bounces back and forth between the project. And we get to see, you know, the perspective of these two people that are so invested in saving their friend. Right. And Jen and Ian and. you know, that they are almost, they're not disregarding the danger that Hannah is in, but they're taking a moment to celebrate what could be, you know, a win for the team and a win for the project and the win for them and the win for Ben, while also kind of recognizing the stakes, you know, in the moment for Hannah. And so, yeah, I just loved it. And of course, yeah, I mean, the conceit of the scene with them, you know, not really being able to communicate with one another. Sure, Addison can see and hear everything Hannah says, but Hannah can't. see Addison or hear Addison at all. And so there's a lot of faith that's involved, right. And I just think that that you know, this the overall spirituality of the last couple of episodes in particular, was something that, you know, I just hope it has not been lost on people. And I don't think it is, I think I've seen plenty of comments and plenty of, you know, conversations that have taken place online, whether it's Reddit or Facebook or Twitter or whatnot, about the very nature of, you know, people believing in each other, you know, people believing in love, you know, it reminds me, it reminds me of that, that Joe Strummer quote, you know, where Joe talks about how without people, you're nothing, you know, and, and, and that, and I think that the show leans heavily into that and the spiritual side of that, you know, the idea that we're all connected to one another. And so very specifically in this moment, of course, Hannah is articulating the fact that Addison and Ben are connected and regardless of how far that bond gets stretched, it'll always come back together. Um, So I just think it's such an incredible scene with incredible work from both of them. And you mentioned Jeffrey earlier and the performance of Wyatt Parker. And I think that the scenes between him and Ben are just fantastic. And in particular, when, you know, it's easy for me to imagine that the, you know, being able, like for Hannah, for Eliza, the actor, to be able to tell Ben. and go save my son. That's probably something that's pretty easily relatable for her, you know, just as a human being. And then for Ben to have to go, you know, to leave her and go to Jeffrey. And the scene that they share is also incredibly important and incredibly creative and inventive and that there was a lot of freedom for these actors to play, you know, both Ray and Wyatt. And I think that that comes across in that scene. J.J. Lendl (31:33) Yeah. Yeah. Mm -hmm. Sam Fain (they/them) (31:57) You know, the building is burning around them. And, uh, and there's, you know, Jeffrey's got a lot of anger and a lot of resentment. And, and of course he does, you know, of course he does, especially after what we learned in against time with the circumstances of his father's death. But, uh, but it just felt like the, the environment that, that Pamela, the director and you know, not to plug my own show, but if you go and you listen to that interview that I did with Pamela, like she talks a lot about kind of. J.J. Lendl (32:05) Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (32:28) you know, these are my words and hers, but setting up like the playground for them, you know, and giving them the freedom to really just go after one another. And in particular, you know, seeing in Wyatt the, you know, the, the, the instinct already being there and just finding ways to bring it out even more. Um, to the point that there was, you know, that there was some stuff like, you know, where there was a big fuck you, you know, that, that obviously is not in the episode because, you know, it's a network. But that was the pitch that they got it to in order to have that scene between the two of them, which plays so well. And what's fascinating to me about that, and it is interesting because you talked earlier about the fact that you almost can't, in spite of it not being planned this way, you almost cannot separate these two episodes from one another now, especially having aired together. And the way that this scene mirrors the scene in the garage later on in Against Time. is so interesting to me because... You know, I think inarguably, the convincing that it takes, you know, to get Jeffrey to come with Ben and against time is more difficult than it takes to get him out of the burning building, you know, and to kind of let go of his dad's things. But, you know, he saves the letter, right? J.J. Lendl (33:44) Right. Yes. Yeah. Right. Right. Sam Fain (they/them) (33:56) So yeah, I mean, that's my long way of saying that I just think, yeah, I mean, I thought that the episode was fantastic. You know, I think on every level, you know, I think it's probably Ben and Derek's, you know, best episode from a writing standpoint. You know, I think that it's, you know, it's hard to say because I think that this episode and Secret History are so very different. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to like sacrifice either for the other. if you will, to put either one above the other. But as far as like Pamela's direction goes, I think she does some really great inventive things here. And we talked about again in that interview, and it's something that I talk with Chris Grismer about a lot, too. And I can't wait to release that interview about limitations and how sometimes those limitations create artistic opportunity, because you might not necessarily have the millions of dollars that some of these, you know, like these HBO shows have, for instance. So you have to start getting creative and thinking about what can I do? How do I do this under the limitations that I have? J.J. Lendl (34:41) Mm -hmm. Yeah. And I particularly liked the scene where they had to force themselves through the fire. Um, because I felt like that was, it was shot in a way where you were, you felt like you were with them. Like you were, it was from their perspective. It was these, these great closeups and you know, they're, they're, they're, uh, using pacing and a lot of, uh, really tight editing. Sam Fain (they/them) (34:52) and Yeah. J.J. Lendl (35:20) to sort of create a feeling. But if you think about it, it's like, oh, they also were able to probably save a lot in terms of having to create this entire set and special effects and things like that because they're playing it so close, but it was so effective to the point where this is, I think that this is a more effective way to do it. You can have a big enough budget in the world, but this, putting you right close into the perspective of the characters feels much more effective than. having some big, wide, late Kurosawa kind of shot of all of them busting out of the room really worked for me. So, right, exactly. Sam Fain (they/them) (35:56) Right, right, right, right. Flames just, you know, surrounding the the the picture. Yeah, no, I completely agree. And it's funny you mentioned that scene in particular, because I don't it should still be accessible because I don't think it was in stories only. I think it was actual posts. But if you go and you look at some of the Instagram posts from around when the episode aired, there are some wonderful behind the scenes footage of how they shot that basically. So you know, at the risk of going on too long about this episode, I will ask them, of course, that you know, the final scene between Hannah and Ben, I just thought was so lovely. You know, I love the music. I love the dialogue. I loved what Hannah had to say. I love the juxtaposition of that scene with Jeffrey reading the letter. I'm curious as to your thoughts on that scene, if there's anything in particular about that. I have a noisy cat at my feet. J.J. Lendl (36:50) I I Thought the scene worked really well on a couple of levels and one as sort of a possible goodbye between these two characters of course that doesn't end up truly being the case, but You're sort of I think this is part of the reason why these two episodes feel so linked because You've got this big twist that happens. And it's almost like the twist starts at the end of this episode during this scene. Amidst this loving goodbye and amidst this final message where it's like, I'm gonna help bring you home. That's the thing that I can do for you. And, you know, underneath all that, there's this... Sam Fain (they/them) (37:43) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (37:47) strange underbelly where you're seeing this other thing happening on the sidelines and you're seeing this kid who very believably is filled with rage and because ironically he doesn't have control over what has happened to him and Ben doesn't have control over what has happened to him and basically you've got this mother saying like Sam Fain (they/them) (38:12) Ha ha ha ha. J.J. Lendl (38:17) you know, to Ben, like, I'm gonna give you control back. And you've got her son over here, kind of be like, that's what I want. That's the thing that I'm looking for. And it creates for me like this sort of dichotomy where you've got Hannah has spent all this time and effort trying to do this thing for Ben. And you've got her son over here who... Sam Fain (they/them) (38:29) Right. J.J. Lendl (38:47) is on his own. And then, you know, as that twist continues to happen into the beginning of 213, you get to see that scene from a different perspective, which is one of my favorite moments from that episode, where you go through and basically you get to see these leaps from Jeffrey's perspective without Ben's song. Sam Fain (they/them) (39:01) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (39:15) in the leaps, you see these leaps, and you see how confusing it would be for this kid, and you see how out of place these moments are. And so, it's hard for me to think of the scene in 212 without thinking of sort of the reprise scene in 213, because I feel like they're so linked, because you've got these two different stories playing out. You've got this sort of triumphant, loving, beautiful culmination. Sam Fain (they/them) (39:36) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (39:45) of Ben and Hannah's arc, but then you've also, you've got this underbelly where it's like, oh, there's gonna be consequences for all of this that we don't quite understand. And that, which leads, of course, to the unmasking of Jeffrey at the beginning, right at the very beginning of 213, which I thought was a great choice too. Sam Fain (they/them) (39:56) Right. Yeah. Yeah. So let's let's just do it. Let's move into against time. And I think that, you know, honestly, any conversation about against against time, it really, you cannot have it without talking quite a bit about Gideon Ridge as played by James Frayn. And I think that, you know, the scene towards the beginning of the episode, when Gideon has, you know, jumped into the imaging chamber and, you know, seen. Ben and Gideon face off in the way that they do and getting, you know, this this information. I mean, it really I've said this before, but it really is, you know, damn near Shakespearean in terms of just the, you know, where the rage comes from, you know, this this this revenge tragedy that's playing out in front of us in the lengths to which Gideon is willing to go in order to exact that revenge now upon Ben for. as he sees it destroying his life. J.J. Lendl (41:14) Right? And I love how that scene starts because it's, you know, it's played not quite for laughs, but you know, of course, Ben has no idea who this person is and he thinks he's about to get hit by that car. And then suddenly it's like, oh, you're in the imaging chamber. You're that rich guy. And yeah, I just... I think that there's something so affecting about James Frayne's performance in this episode, and of course starting with this scene. And I will say that I think that something that really blew me away was the consistency between the two performances of this character in the episode where you really saw... the threading of the needle between this teen and this middle -aged guy. Like you saw the trajectory. You saw that they were the same person. There was no doubt. Like it was just complete verisimilitude. Like it just, you were there for it. Which I thought was, I mean, that's like, I don't know how that happens organically. Sam Fain (they/them) (42:20) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (42:41) I think it's just maybe two performers really understanding the character and being really good at playing it. Because it would be tough to coordinate that. Sam Fain (they/them) (42:48) Yeah. I will say, I do think part of that comes from, and I know that this was something that Deborah Pratt kind of gave James as far as direction goes, that so much of who Gideon is is wrapped up in this 13 year old boy. He never progressed emotionally from that point. Intellectually, physically, yes. J.J. Lendl (43:19) It's so perfect for like a tech, for a tech bro. And I also appreciated that there, you know, there was a fair amount of, uh, sort of, uh, you know, social commentary in terms of who the villain was, uh, you know, in, in this season, ultimately, and, um, the idea of having. Sam Fain (they/them) (43:23) Yeah, right. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (43:46) so much power and money and influence, but lacking any sense of purpose for it that might be at all altruistic. I thought it hit really hard. And I thought that, I mean, the episode does something which I think is unique just generally, which is it is basically, you know, the big... The big climax is, it's not like, oh, we, you know, of course there's all these things that they need to do. We need to save this person's life. We need to get there in time. We need to save the future and all this stuff. But those are all MacGuffins. It's basically, I'm gonna teach you how to be empathetic. Is it, it's like a lesson in empathy. It's a very straightforward lesson in empathy. And... Sam Fain (they/them) (44:35) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (44:43) And I think that, you know, you look at James Frayn and the way that he plays this character and he plays it as someone who is almost completely lacking in anything close to empathy. And, you know, and I think that that is such a wonderful juxtaposition of this particular scene with Ben who just drips empathy from his pores. It's like, you know, mixing, you know, Sam Fain (they/them) (45:07) Right. J.J. Lendl (45:11) water and oil. It's just like these two things are, they're so, the confrontation, it's like a yin and a yang. And I thought that scene did a really good job of sort of laying that out with everything that they said to each other. And the tragedy wrapped in it, of course, is that in a way, you know, Jeffrey is, Sam Fain (they/them) (45:22) Mmm. J.J. Lendl (45:38) a result of Ben's altruism of his empathy in a roundabout way. And you know, the entire episode is Ben trying to reframe that for young Jeffrey and try to say, hey, yeah, the world's messed up. You could absolutely look at it like this. Or you could look at it like this. And boy, oh boy, life is going to be a lot better for you if you can. Sam Fain (they/them) (45:44) Yes. Right. Yes. J.J. Lendl (46:06) if you could try to see things from this perspective and take off the blinders and look at all these other people around you and realize that they matter as well and that you can have effect on their lives. And I just liked how the seeds of that story were laid really well in this initial confrontation and just the performances were incredible. Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (46:26) Yeah. Yeah, yeah, without a doubt. And I think that, you know, one of the things that carries through the episode as a whole, like he says, is that empathy engine, you know, and Ben's desire to ultimately teach Jeffrey how to save a life. You know, you don't have to destroy. in order to feel better, right? That helping can be the way to that, to resolving that anger, that hole, that what you're missing. And of course, the scene where Ben is standing over the computer with the hammer, it's just like that is quantum leap. J.J. Lendl (47:14) And that's really the, that's the moment, that's the moment in the episode where it all comes down to this one, this one man out of time who has a gut feeling that this is wrong. Or something like, you know, I'm trying to think of, you read Dr. King's letter from Birmingham jail. He talks about, it's been years, so if I'm like, Sam Fain (they/them) (47:18) Yeah. Yeah. Mmm. J.J. Lendl (47:44) butchering this, people go easy on me. But he talks about different types of law that exist. He talks about human law. Then he talks about something that he refers to as divine law. And he's talking about this in terms of the civil rights struggle. And he talks about divine law is that law that is written on the human heart. The one that... you know, we don't have to have any documentations or pieces of paper or governments or anything else to tell us is in fact true. And you just think in that moment, you know, Ben is thinking about, okay, Ziggy's saying this, we have these statistics, this is the thing. No, there's something, you know, there's something written on my heart as a person, as a person with, you know, my personality, with my empathy, that's telling me that this is not the path that is gonna get us to. Sam Fain (they/them) (48:17) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (48:39) the best solution for everybody. I have to do something else and he takes that lead. And I just thought that was such a, that was the moment of the season, that one moment. That was it, for me at least. Sam Fain (they/them) (48:49) Yeah. I mean, I think one could potentially argue that there is one other moment in the episode that might outdo it. We'll get there in a second. But before we do, let's talk about some of the Easter eggs real quick. You know, the most obvious one, the one that right away hit me was of course the scale replica of Al's car from Leap for Lisa. J.J. Lendl (49:03) Okay, tear it up. you Yes, yeah, and I had recently watched that episode, so that was fresh in my mind, which was pretty cool. Yeah, I, for designing this poster, I had to do a little deep dive, because I watched the episode, I had an idea of a layout in mind. And thankfully, I, it's so funny, like I do, okay, I need to, I want the stock car from the, from the, Sam Fain (they/them) (49:22) you know, that Jen and Zip using. Yeah. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (49:49) the top angle and if you've seen the poster you know what I'm talking about. It's like an aerial shot from the car. And I was like, I need to figure out what this car is. And it is a 1975 Old Mobile Cutlass Supreme stock car, which I had to figure out. But it's funny because we actually, my family, one of the cars that we had growing up was an Old Mobile Cutlass Supreme. Sam Fain (they/them) (49:53) Yeah. Hahaha! J.J. Lendl (50:18) So I was able to clock that pretty fast. It wasn't a 75, it was an 85. So it was even more kind of boxy and less cool because at that point in the mid -80s, it was just like we're driving tanks around. But the car stuff is so funny. You sort of have the juxtaposition between Ben driving around this powerful stock car and then you've got this little. Sam Fain (they/them) (50:19) Wow. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (50:47) little RV car driving around distracting people at the project. I thought that was a nice little juxtaposition between the leap and the project stuff. But yeah, and a very cool Easter egg in an episode filled with a lot of Easter eggs for the original series. Sam Fain (they/them) (50:51) Yeah. Well, there was another one that I think a lot of people missed. And I have the benefit of having someone pointed out to me that that would obviously know. And that's the shirt that Casey Jarrett, you know, the sister of the Leap Host and daughter of the man that, you know, bends there to save. The t -shirt that Casey is wearing is a Carly Farmer concert tour t -shirt. J.J. Lendl (51:32) I missed it. I missed it. That's perfect. That's great. Sam Fain (they/them) (51:33) Yeah. Yeah. Which of course, fellow travelers was another Drew Lindo episode from from season one. But yeah, I just you know, little stuff like that. Just so so brilliant. So wonderful. Now, of course, the you know, the the big big thread and one of the other scenes I think that might be in contention for like, scene of the episode in a way, of course, has to be the scene with the reveal of why Beth and Janice are helping the rogue. J.J. Lendl (51:39) That's amazing. Yes. Sam Fain (they/them) (52:03) project team. I mean that scene, yeah. J.J. Lendl (52:08) When they started playing that the score, it's just like, oh man, wow. Like the moment we've all been waiting for. Sam Fain (they/them) (52:13) Yeah. And it did this thing that, you know, I know I've mentioned to you before. I know that I've talked about it on the podcast before, going all the way back, what was that, like four years ago almost to when, you know, Dennis and I originally finished the run of the classic series, that it had always been in my mind that when Sam sits Beth down and says those words, I'm going to tell you a story that that's exactly what he does and that Beth has known everything the entire time that she has been the keeper of the project in so many ways and ensuring that things happened in such a way that it didn't disrupt things that there was no big butterfly effect like there was in this episode. Right. And this confirms that that's true. You know that she's always known as. J.J. Lendl (53:07) Isn't that cool? Yes. Right. Yeah. It's amazing. Yes. And to have that as, you know, candid or whatever you want and for them to all be, you know, yeah, it's wonderful. And, you know, it's giving the fans what they want, which is nice. And if you could do it in a way that is organic, which it absolutely was. And again, like you're building on this, you're building on Sam Fain (they/them) (53:10) fucking awesome. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. J.J. Lendl (53:44) And I refuse to say that this has series finale vibes, because bringing all that together, I just feel like it was a nice culmination of everything that has come before now. And I just, yeah, it was a wonderful scene. I think what I was saying before in terms of the scene with... Sam Fain (they/them) (54:06) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (54:13) Jeffrey's computer, I feel like that is the scene of the season when it comes to the culmination of that kind of story point. But obviously this scene is so, it's almost like this, more of an overarching story point going back to the original series, which is what was so wonderful about this episode is that it felt like it, was able to do everything over the course of 40 odd minutes, which was very impressive. I don't know anybody who didn't like this episode, and I don't want to know anybody who didn't like this episode, frankly. Sam Fain (they/them) (54:54) Right, right. Well, you know, I mean, obviously there's more we could say and the episode is so incredibly beautiful in so many ways, but I think that the, you know, the final thing that really ties everything together and I think has the emotional impact that has been built by moments like that with the computer, for instance. you know, it starts with the final scene between Ben and Hannah, you know, in the stands in, you know, at the racetrack. And Hannah lays it out as plain as day. And I think it's kind of interesting to me that there are people that are maybe missing what she's saying, because there's a lot of people that are much in the same way that you had people at the end of season one speculating. who you know who came through the accelerator who's gonna be there you know who they never answered that question who can and it's like nobody came through the accelerator that's the whole point like they thought that they were gonna get been back but they didn't you know and much in the same way I think that there are a lot of people they're like well who swapped who swapped who swapped it's like nobody swapped like that's the whole point of the code you know like Hannah Hannah right because Hannah states it plain as day you know it's like home is in a place it's a person. J.J. Lendl (55:59) you Yeah, I didn't even think about that. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, right. Yeah, that seemed pretty clear to me. I don't know. I don't go online enough, Sam. I don't know what to say. Sam Fain (they/them) (56:22) Right. I don't think that's a bad thing. But but but but all that said, you know, we get this beautiful scene between the two of them. And then, of course, we come back to the present and we see that everything's changed from Madison's point of view. You know, Jen is alive, which, you know, we. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (56:36) Yes. Well, we got to talk about that too. I just want to talk about that really just how great that scene was and Dan Rissa just killing that scene so good. And just the whole cast because it's such an emotional moment and you know, the rest of the cast having to play it, you know, over the phone, you know, not being in the room there. I just thought it was incredible. And it just makes Gideon slash Jeffrey just such a. Sam Fain (they/them) (56:59) Right. Yes. J.J. Lendl (57:09) you know, just such a villain. Like it just, yeah, so good. But yes, no, the goal, just the, you know, everything has been transformed. What I found interesting about that scene is that Addison is in the imaging chamber at the second location and she comes out of the imaging chamber at HQ. Sam Fain (they/them) (57:15) Yeah, irredeemable. Mm -mm. J.J. Lendl (57:39) So she has literally moved locations from one imaging chamber to the other, which is pretty incredible. Right. Exactly. Right. Which, you know, makes it again, you know, it's a TV show, but you know, you can make that make sense with the fact that there's been this butterfly effect. And if she's, she's at the center of it, then she would, you know, I guess if the imaging chamber at the secondary place has the same. Sam Fain (they/them) (57:46) She's already leaped. Right, right. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (58:09) timey -wimey that the one at the main project does, then that kind of thing could be possible. That makes sense. That's my head can for it. But, uh... There you go. Sam Fain (they/them) (58:17) Right. I like it. I'm with you. I'm with you. I didn't even think to mention that in the review, the solo review. But the scene that then takes place, and when you really start to put all the pieces together, you start to realize that in a way, the past two seasons have functioned just as much as an origin story for Ben Song as they have for Addison Augustine. J.J. Lendl (58:30) Thank you. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (58:52) And that the Addison that stands there and tells everyone that she's going to go into the accelerator because they still get to swap code that she's going to swap herself for Ben. She's ready. In a way that the Addison that was training to be the Leaper was never ready. And I think that that's beautiful. And I think part of it is because Ben, you know, the funny thing is, is that Ben saves Jeffrey, right? J.J. Lendl (58:59) Thank you. Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (59:22) And in a smaller way, one could argue he also saves Addison because he gives Addison the example of you don't have that. We don't have to break this. We don't. There's a better way. And and and equipped with that, she's now ready to be the Leaper. She's ready to be, you know, the empathy engine that that Sam Beckett was that Ben song is. And so it's just a really lovely moment. And Caitlin is phenomenal in that. J.J. Lendl (59:50) Yes, so good. And I, yeah, it's just, it felt so right. I'm gonna mention one thing off topic that just, cause I thought of, I thought of, you know, Addison going into the accelerator and she's got the typical QL leaping suit. I just wanted to shout out James Frayne's got leap suit. I just thought that that was such a chef's kiss. Like of course. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:00:10) Yeah, the the black Fermi suit yeah Right. J.J. Lendl (1:00:20) Of course, he'd be like, get one in black. Okay, all right, yes. Yeah, well, it'll cost us an extra 10K, but yeah, we'll work that in for the boss, thank you. Get out there. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:00:21) Oh yeah. emo, emo tech boy, emo tech boys, you know, bringing his baggage in, in the form of a black Fermi suit without a doubt. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (1:00:39) But yes, I thought that the... I think you're absolutely right. Of course, Ben literally saves Addison through the entire action of season one, but all of this goes to kind of take her on a journey to perhaps make her a better candidate to be the Leaper than she would have. Because we've got a really great example in season one of... how this could go wrong, you've got Martinez, who is completely focused on the mission and is totally fine with the idea of collateral damage, which was basically the situation that Ben was put in here. It's like, yeah, we're gonna mess up this kid for life in terms of his confidence, but at least he won't grow up to be this. And it's like, well, that feels like I'm not prepared to take on that. that kind of outcome. And yeah, I think you're spot on. Like, I think that that's as much of a moment for her as it is for Ben. And just to see her boldly going in there. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:01:38) Right. And I think that the other thing too is that, you know, throughout most of season one, Addison did not, she was robbed of a lot of agency. And I think that that went against the very nature of the character, which created a really interesting internal conflict. And I think we got to see that play out a little bit more through the first, you know, like six episodes of season two than we did the, you know, the whole of season one, although I do think it was present. And, you know, this season, J.J. Lendl (1:02:02) Thank you. Right. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:02:22) gave her so much more agency. And one of the ways that it did that, that I haven't had a chance to articulate on the podcast yet, so this is the perfect opportunity, a lot of people speculated early on, even after we knew that that was no longer the case, that Tom was going to be a villain of some fashion, right? I don't think Tom ever could have been a villain. I never thought that he was going to be the villain. You know, you can, you can check my work and go back and listen to other episodes. It's true. I never thought he was going to be a villain. I'm glad he wasn't a villain. And the number one reason why I'm glad that he wasn't a villain is because if he had been a villain in any way, it would have robbed Addison of the agency to be the one to break it off with him, to realize that that's what she needed to do for herself. And by him being a good guy, J.J. Lendl (1:02:52) Thank you. Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:03:15) By him being someone that we could empathize and sympathize with ultimately, it created a situation where Addison got to make the decision herself. It was not thrust upon her by realizing that her fiance or boyfriend or whatever is, you know, the subordinate to the big bad of the season or whatever, you know? And I think again that one of the themes of the season as far as the character narrative goes was reestablishing. Addison's agency and preparing her to be a leaper, which of course, she steps into the accelerator, she leaps, JJ, take it away. Tell me what you thought of the way that this season ended. J.J. Lendl (1:04:02) Well, we've talked in the past about how the revival of Quantum Leap is a continuation of the original show, but also a reimagining of the show in many ways. And I think that this final scene where we have not one, but two Leapers together in one place. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:04:10) Thank you. J.J. Lendl (1:04:32) It is further evolving the show and what it can do and it makes so much sense because I just love this stuff because you know you have you have you know that this time travel premise you've got one man alone in the past with only one connection to to his time and And he has no control over where he leaves and Yeah, that's a great premise, but it doesn't have to stay that way. It doesn't have to be the premise of the show forever. And so to do this and to have two people, and the closest thing from the original show that this reminds me of is Revenge of the Evil Leaper from season five where you have a dual leap happening, timey -wimey science stuff, cool things. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:05:05) Right. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (1:05:31) And, you know, I remember, you know, the first time that I saw that episode, I thought, wow, what a cool, what a cool take that if you were to have two people, there'd be a lot of pressure for them to stay together and to coordinate things like that. I love, I love, love, love the possibilities of this new formula. And so my main feeling was super excited to see where they are running to as. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:05:52) Yeah. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (1:06:01) as it cuts to black. And I hope we find out that we find out sooner rather than later, is what I'll say about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:06:05) you Yeah, me too. Me too. And, you know, I will say it's funny because I did read some comments about, you know, people thinking that that that there was something slapdash about the ending or something like that, which is this is like the the the smallest of the small minority. Right. J.J. Lendl (1:06:25) That's so strange to s - Yeah, it just seems so like the entire season built thematically and literally to that moment where you have these two characters that start miles away from each other, like decades away, but also so emotionally apart from each other because the amount of time that has passed for Addison and that she has had to move on and basically have to... Sam Fain (they/them) (1:06:39) Exactly. J.J. Lendl (1:06:58) to have to bury her fiance. And the season was just about these two people realizing that they are home for each other. And of course, this is where the story ends for this season. Of course it is. So that's what I loved so much about the finale. That's what I love so much about the season is that it just was such a perfectly articulated thesis. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:07:12) Yeah. J.J. Lendl (1:07:28) for the entire run of episodes and that it was so wonderfully choreographed and written and I just felt like this De Numa was, you know, you will rewatch the season and it'll all blow. So I would, for anybody saying that, maybe rewatch the season and see if you feel the same way. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:07:32) Yeah. Right? Well, it goes back to what I feel like I've been saying for the past, you know, six weeks now is that the, you know, as we got closer and closer to the end of the season, it was becoming increasingly clear that everything from the beginning of this season, all the way through to the end had intent and purpose behind it. You know, behind the narratives of these characters, how, you know, their stories were being told, the emotional stakes of it all. and how that became the engine for the plot, not some sort of meta plot or some sort of MacGuffin being the engine that drags the characters along. Instead, the characters got to drive that, and it was beautiful. And I agree with you, we have so much possibility. And I want so badly to see what's next. You know? J.J. Lendl (1:08:32) Yeah, yeah. Right. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:08:46) Addison's the cop and bends the you know, the handcuffed prisoner in the backseat of the car. You know, Addison's the father and bends the daughter. You know, like, like, or or what about a leap where what about a leap where you know, they are separated by 50 some miles or something like that. And both of them have things that they have to do as they work their way back to one another to complete the ultimate goal of the leap or something, right? You know, like, J.J. Lendl (1:08:52) Thank you. Right, yes. Absolutely, or the opposite, they're Siamese twins. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:09:16) God damn it. But yeah, but I mean, there's just so much, there's so much possibility. And furthermore, not only just those potential leap scenarios, right? But the character drama, the idea that these two people who have been torn apart for so long have now been brought back together, that they're one another's home, but there's still a lot of work to do. This isn't just, hold my hand, don't ever let go, I love you, we're gonna live happily ever after. You know, there's there's in my mind, there's still a lot of work for these two people to do. And and and and and I just think that the that the character drama from that perspective is fascinating as well. And it's and it's like they're you know, they they now have to almost get to know one another in a completely different way. You know, that this partnership has has has it's been kicked up a notch, you know. J.J. Lendl (1:10:11) Yeah, and you know what, like you were alluding to, I mean, depending upon who they leap into, they're not necessarily gonna be able to express themselves in the way that they want to as two people who are in love. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:10:23) Yeah, and And let's, you know what, yeah, let's talk about that elephant in the room for a moment here, right? How comfortable are they going to be, right? How comfortable are they going to be if they're not, you know, if they have not leapt into two people that have some sort of romantic relationship? You know, will there be the opportunity to discuss that idea? You know, it's like, you know, Can we consent in this situation? Like, is this actually the, this is strange, right? Like, are we, you know, it's like everything that we've talked about with Classic Quantum Leap, it's like the Wonder Woman 84 thing, right? You know, I think that there's something about it that does, you know, it raises questions and I just think that there's the opportunity to, yeah, to tell so many different types of stories. And I think the thing for me that, J.J. Lendl (1:11:16) Thank you. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:11:17) really what they were able to do in that final scene is blow the doors wide open and say everything that you thought quantum leap was, it still is, but now we're going to show you and prove to you it can be so much more. And that is exactly what any type of revival, continuation, et cetera, needs to be, should be, can be. I'm reminded of the Battlestar Galactica reimagining, right? It's like everything you thought Battlestar Galactica was sure it is it was right we can do all of that. But it can also be so much more think about the circumstances these people are in. Think about what you know the way that you rebuild your society think about the way you know asking all of those big questions and now we have the opportunity in this you know again this very character driven drama this very you know character driven story to to push that envelope further and to end and again blow the doors open and say like. it can be so much more than that. And we can tell so many different kinds of stories now. So I think it's just incredibly exciting. And as we wait to hear one way or another, I remain optimistic, but it's still thrilling to me that the possibilities exist. J.J. Lendl (1:12:36) Yeah, same. And yeah, I just don't want this story to end here. And, you know, a lot of people saying, you know, that this could be, you know, this could be a natural, you know, fulfilling conclusion. Yeah, I mean, conceivably, yeah, but I don't know. I, that's not how I was feeling in the moment. I wasn't feeling like, okay, they're together and now... they can walk off into the sunset. I think that there's more there. I think that the story begs to be continued. So I hope that it is. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:13:05) Right. Well, when they grab hands and run towards the fire and that look on their faces, you know, that to me is I want to see the fires they run into, you know, I don't want to just be left with this moment. And, you know, I think that, again, I don't want to talk about it too much. And the chief reason that I don't want to talk about it too much is because the thing that often gets forgotten. J.J. Lendl (1:13:25) Right. Absolutely. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:13:37) especially with all the salacious and I will just use that word pieces that you see written on awful, horrible, toxic websites. And that people sometimes forget when we have these conversations, we're talking about people's jobs, their livelihoods, their passions, the things that they've invested everything into to create this stuff that we love so much. And so I don't want to belabor this point. However, that said, you know, we are in a situation where we do not know whether or not the show is going to be renewed for a third season. J.J. Lendl (1:13:49) Absolutely, 100%. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:14:06) And I think the important thing that I can say, and I can say this with absolute 100 % certainty, and it is one of the few times that I will pull this card, I can say it with just about more certainty than a lot of people out there, quite frankly, that are not directly involved with the show or the network. There is no decision that has been made one way or the other. There is no, no one's leaning this way or that way. There's no hints at this or hints at that. The stage is still standing, the sets are still standing, they have not dismantled anything, you know, so we just don't know what's going to happen. J.J. Lendl (1:14:44) Yeah, yeah. I mean, and that makes sense to me, you know, I'm no expert, but generally, from how I understand these things work is, you know, you have shows that, that, you know, fit certain slots in terms of programming overall for a network. And you may have a hard time figuring out if a certain show fits a certain slot. until you know what other slots are going to be filled. And, you know, there's this thing in network television called, you know, up -fronts where, you know, you're figuring out what pilots are being ordered. And so you've got all these sort of pieces on the chessboard. And depending upon what pilots are looking good for the executives will have a direct effect on what shows. are going to come back as well because they want to have a certain palette of programming for the season. And so it's really difficult to pick and choose what you're going to green light until you have a better idea of what other pieces are sort of at play, if that makes sense. I don't know if that, you know, that's at least how I see it. Of course it would be, you know, for fans of the show, so much easier if it was just like, this is definitely getting renewed. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:16:02) Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, and look, I think that the other thing is too, that's important to note is that in a very recent interview, Aaron Underhill, who is You know, the one that would have some say over these decisions at Universal TV, you know, she's high on the show. I mean, and alludes to the fact that the network is incredibly impressed with the show. And that, you know, you have to understand that ultimately the network is going to look at... They're looking at things beyond just the ratings, which I think that it's, you know, they're, it's so funny because we have access to this information in a way that we did not used to have. You know, it's not, it was not always this easily accessible, right? And you'd always hear about the shows that were pulling 10, 15, 20 million viewers or whatever. Nobody pulls 10, 15, 20 million viewers anymore. You know what I mean? On a regular basis. Right. And. J.J. Lendl (1:17:12) on a network. Unless you're a football game, yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:17:17) And it has changed so much. And in many ways, the networks have been playing catch up for a long time. And as they have their streaming services now and all these other things, they're still playing catch up in many ways. And the business has changed so much. And the strikes have caused such a tightening in so many ways. Networks aren't ordering as many pilots as they were. It used to be that you might see a network field as many as 10 or 15 pilots in a pilot season. And now we're hearing that some of these networks are only ordering like two. Think about that for a moment. And when you only order two, you're not guaranteeing that you're going to run with either one of them. Now, NBC has indeed announced that they did do a season order for one of the pilots already. J.J. Lendl (1:18:03) Yeah, that's crazy. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:18:15) So there will be a new show, but they had space anyway because La Brea is no longer going to be on the network. So there's just so much that goes into it. And again, I think it's important to note that NBC does genuinely like the show. There are people within Universal Television that really love and appreciate the show and appreciate what it does. And to the point that for these final few episodes, they were barely giving... J.J. Lendl (1:18:22) Okay. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:18:42) notes and not because they didn't care but because they were so pleased with what they were seeing and and i and i just yeah yeah J.J. Lendl (1:18:47) Which is nice. That's less to worry about on that end of that spectrum, which isn't anything to sneeze at. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like you can't watch the season and not feel like this is a show that is operating at real high level. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:18:54) Absolutely. J.J. Lendl (1:19:17) And part of it with the ratings thing, I mean, with the strike and everything, this show came back on a different night at a different time. And that's really tough. And I think that that's something that I would hope that the folks at NBC and Universal will take into consideration. We moved this show. We moved it at a time when it hadn't been on the air for months. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:19:25) Yeah. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (1:19:46) and then we brought it back on a different day. And so under even the best circumstances, it's gonna take an audience a little while to find the show again. They even realized it was coming back. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:19:55) Well, yeah, and you know, the other thing that's been encouraging to me is seeing the number of people that have continued to talk about the show and talk about the finale specifically, and which is an indicator to me that people are watching it on Peacock, that people who did not watch it as it aired, you know, are watching it on Peacock, that are watching it again, that are, you know, that are staying tuned into it. I mean, I have friends that I've spoken to that that's how they watched the show. And so, J.J. Lendl (1:20:05) Thanks. Yeah, you should do what I do. Anytime I'm leaving my house, I put on Peacock and I hit plan episode quantity for my cat. And then I go and I just let the season play. Do it overnight, go into bed. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:20:25) Yes. Boom. Exactly. Any time I'm out of the house, any time I'm out of the, if I'm going to be out of the house for 12 hours, it's on, you know? So, which, which I do think is the most important thing because look here, let's, let's, let's, let's, let's talk about, you know, some specific stuff. If you're seeing any headlines that, that are, that are talking about, you know, the show likely being canceled or disaster or whatever, any of these types of things, ignore it right away. Those, those, those are the sites that are just out for clicks. J.J. Lendl (1:20:40) There you go. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:21:00) Most of them are toxic as fuck. Yeah. And and and and and you know, they're they're predisposed to dislike this show for reasons. Make of that what you will. Second of all, I think that any sort of campaign to say hey, hey, hey, NBC renew the show. We love it. Admirable, amazing, wonderful. Please do whatever it is that you are going to do. I'm not going to tell you. J.J. Lendl (1:21:00) to the state. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:21:27) Don't write your letters. They don't mean anything. Or don't do this. It doesn't mean anything. What I am going to tell you is the thing that means the most is not a letter. It's not an email. It's not a tweet. It's not any of that. It is going to Peacock, heading over to Quantum Leap and streaming the episodes. Do that. That is the number one thing you can do to show NBC and universal television that you want more quantum leap. The letters, the messages. All that sort of stuff again, I'm not saying don't do it. It certainly shows some support. But the thing that will actually get them to say we need to renew this show are the viewing numbers on Peacock for this series. So stream stream stream stream stream. J.J. Lendl (1:22:11) You know, you and I are the biggest physical media advocates that you will find. But if you feel like watching season one of Quantum Leap anytime soon, and you have the Blu -ray, for now, leave it on the shelf, stream it on Peacock instead. That would be what it does. And then, you know, if you wanna watch it again on Blu -ray, you could do that. Or if you wanna have like, you've got two TVs, you can have the Blu -ray on one, and then stream it over on Peacock on the other. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:22:16) NNNN Yeah, absolutely. Well, you could do that too. You could. Yeah. Please, please let us know. Look, I am so thrilled and excited with where the show was left. I want you know, I want there to be a season three, four, five, six, seven, etc, etc, etc. Well, you know, I think look, if I'm being completely honest here, most shows are usually played out after five seasons. J.J. Lendl (1:22:41) And then if you see any differences in the mass, let us know. Good morning. Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:23:07) Some can get away with the sixth or seventh season, but after that, I can't think of many shows that really needed to run that long. I mean, look, The Simpsons certainly had some wonderful episodes on, you know, the later. But yeah, anyway, point is that when it comes to quantum leap, I want more. I know if you're listening to this, you want more. So stream away on Peacock and and see what we can do so we can see Ben and Addison as they travel through time and what that means and. J.J. Lendl (1:23:19) the Sam Fain (they/them) (1:23:36) What if they end up like 10 years apart, right? But they're working on the same leap. Like how cool would that be? Like wouldn't that be really cool? Yeah, exactly. The writers are like, stop talking. Yeah, yeah, exactly. J.J. Lendl (1:23:43) These are becoming pictures at this point. You're just pitching. You know, if we had that idea before you did, we can't give you credit for that idea, okay? Sam Fain (they/them) (1:24:01) But anyway, I'm so thrilled that we got the chance to do this, JJ, and I know again that there are people that wanted it, and we're certainly going to be talking more quantum leap, regardless of what happens, quite frankly. We will definitely be talking more. I would love to be able to do a bit of an overview of season two, and then kind of just an overview of both seasons together, and kind of dig into some of that. And one of the things that I really wanna do, J.J. Lendl (1:24:07) Me too. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:24:28) that has been dormant pretty much since the new series came to be are the capsule reviews of the classic series. And so, at the risk of putting it all out there, I'm just gonna ask you right here and right now, JJ, would you be my co -host for those capsule reviews of the classic series when the time is right? J.J. Lendl (1:24:48) Oh I'm honored at the question, absolutely. And from my part, not only would I love to talk more about the classic show, especially now, you know, there's this whole other element that you could discuss now that we've got the revival, which is fun, right? But, you know, I'm curious if, you know, Sam Fain (they/them) (1:25:09) Absolutely. J.J. Lendl (1:25:16) if folks would be interested in seeing me do some more classic episode posters for some time capsule episodes. Because I've done a handful. I know the show backwards and forwards. I'd love an excuse to do more, frankly. So if I leave home, leave back, leaving of the show. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:25:27) Oh yeah. We're gonna get a leap home out of you yet. Look, when we get to temptation eyes, can you just promise to work in I wanna know what love is somewhere on the poster? J.J. Lendl (1:25:51) It's just gonna be the lyrics. It's just gonna be a lyric sheet. Unless you buy the US Region 1 DVD, then it will be blank. Anybody gets that? Anybody gets that reference? Sam Fain (they/them) (1:25:53) Just yeah. Yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness. J.J. Lendl (1:26:10) My buddy used to make fun of me because, you know, I was, you know, back when they were releasing the show on DVD, you know, I'd get on my soapbox and like, here he goes again. And like, you know, they don't have the original broadcast music for most of the episodes. And so I would, I would watch, I would have that episode on and I would have him queue up on his stereo. I want to know what love is. And as soon as the mood came up, like now, okay, then we can watch it soon. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:26:38) Now we can watch this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, you know, it's so it's so fascinating to me that there are people that will not be able to truly appreciate that aspect of owning physical media of television, because I feel like there are people like we've crossed a threshold where owning television in a physical format. J.J. Lendl (1:26:56) Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:27:07) is people aren't necessarily going out and seeking out and buying the old shows the way that maybe we used to. Right. And I feel like there was a time when, you know, late 90s to mid 2000s, there was a time where it was just sort of like, I wanted all those old shows on DVD. Right. And then depressingly enough, you started to figure out it's like, what do you mean it doesn't have the original music? You know, what do you mean you replace you replaced what in China Beach? You did what in quantum leap? You did, you know, and and and luckily, J.J. Lendl (1:27:29) There's a cat. Right. Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:27:36) A lot of that has been restored, you know, obviously quantum leap. We were lucky enough to have that restored. The China Beach DVDs that came out, you know, probably about eight years ago or so, whatever, had most of the music restored. So like. Yeah, I was just getting ready to mention that, yeah, there's a couple, but there's there's a couple that are still missing in there, I think. Like, I think like. J.J. Lendl (1:27:49) We finally got more than three years on DVD after a long time. Yeah, I think they got like 95 % of the music. I think that even the theme song is a little different. I think they're using a different version of the Joe Cocker. And the same thing with Dawson's Creek as well. That's a show that was plagued with music changes. But they were now able to, I think if you stream it now, which it's available, Dawson's Creek is available to stream in 4K. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:28:00) Yeah. Yep. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (1:28:25) Yeah. It's, it's legit. Right? Yeah. Yes. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:28:26) You know, in a way that seems apropos, if you think about it, with Dawson wanting to be a filmmaker and all, like there's something about that that's kind of poetic. The fact that I know that, by the way. Look, what can I say? It was on after Buffy, okay? Come on. J.J. Lendl (1:28:36) But it's crazy, it's almost like, wow, rush. We could also talk about the dark side of this show's gonna be available in HD. It's like, oh, what did you guys, what did you do? What did you do to it? Yeah, yeah. There are some dark tales there. You know, Buffy is one of them. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:28:48) Yeah, right, right, right, right. Yeah, you know. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Babylon five was one of them. I you know, the new blue rays are actually quite nice. You know, there's still look, the fact is, like the special effects are never going to quite, you know, match up but but it looks a hell of a lot better. J.J. Lendl (1:29:11) But that was the exact right thing for a show like Babylon 5 to do. We've talked about DS9 before, and if they could find some middle ground for DS9 to have the scanned 35 millimeter in HD and then do some sort of operas for the special effects, I think that would go a long way to archiving this show. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:29:20) Great. Oh yeah. Absolutely. No, I agree. J.J. Lendl (1:29:39) You know, I don't think that that's the end of the world. I think when you start taking shows and up -resing them, and then also cropping them, and then not spending any time on things like color timing, then that's when things get really, really ugly looking, which is unfortunate. Yeah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:29:55) Yeah. Yeah, without a doubt, without a doubt. But all that said, look, stream the show and hopefully we'll be talking about season three. But in the meantime, we got a lot of stuff that we're going to be talking about. Again, I have an interview with Chris Grismer, director of Against Time, amongst others that will be dropping very, very soon. I had to do a little extra editing work on that. I'll drop a note about that. But but it was such a delight. He is just so fantastic. I loved it. J.J. Lendl (1:30:01) Anyway. Yes. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:30:23) I have an interview with Daniel James Chan, who is the composer for the show. Another fun interview. And, you know, we got to just talk about all sorts of stuff with like music and setting moods and tones and emotions and that sort of stuff. And, you know, and talking about like his favorite composers and, you know, talking about some of our favorite pieces from film and television. And it was just a lot of fun. So I'm really looking forward to sharing that. It was, yeah, it was my first time speaking with him. J.J. Lendl (1:30:28) Yeah! Was this your first time speaking with him? That's so cool, yeah. We communicated last year for a minute and I get to talk to him a little bit about one of the standout episodes from season one in terms of the score, which was the Western episode. So I don't know if you guys had a chance to talk about that at all, but it's pretty cool. Oh good, that's good to hear. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:31:00) Mmm. Oh yeah. We did, yeah, we did talk a little bit about that. And one of the main reasons that we talked about it was also just the idea of genre hopping in general and how exciting that can be from a composer's standpoint. So I'm really looking forward to sharing both of those with you. I have one other interview in the works that I should be recording this coming Friday, and I can't wait to share that with you. And hopefully there'll be a couple of more after that. So lots of exciting quantum leap related stuff still in the pipeline that will be coming out over the next few weeks. And of course, JJ and I are going to get back to what we were doing during the break between Nomads and Off the Cuff, which is talking about some of the other stuff that we love and kind of tease this at the beginning of this episode. But it has been requested by more than two of you. J.J. Lendl (1:31:48) retro reviews. Yes. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:31:59) Um, that's gonna be my new thing. But no, sincerely, it's been requested by a few folks that they want to hear us talk about Star Wars. And JJ and I want to talk about Star Wars. So it's the perfect fit. And we're going to kick things off appropriately enough. It is the 25th anniversary this May of the release of Episode One, the Phantom Menace. And I think it's react. J.J. Lendl (1:32:00) Right. where it all started. Well, not really, but. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:32:27) But I think it's an incredibly exciting place to start in some ways. And the main reason for that is because I think that there are elements of the film that can be kind of divisive. amongst the fandom. While I do think that overall the prequels have had a steady reevaluation over the past, you know, five, 10 years or so, and people are appreciating them more and more. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that the people that saw them in theaters when they were seven and eight and nine years old are now, you know, in their thirties and, you know, and that nostalgia effect kicks in and that kind of certainly helps, et cetera. But I just think it's also a wonderful place to start. It is the beginning of the story in so many ways. And, you know, as a prequel. Um... J.J. Lendl (1:33:09) And I think more personally for us, you know, you hear a lot of folks, a lot of Gen Xers saying, you know, oh, and I was a kid, I went and I saw the original Star Wars and it was, and you know, Phantom Menace, that was it for our generation. You know, we were the ones who were, I was at middle school when it came out and you know, we were, there was all of this hype and we were the ones who were going to theater and see this thing. So that it feels, you know, regardless of how you feel, Sam Fain (they/them) (1:33:23) Right. J.J. Lendl (1:33:39) necessarily about the quality of the films. That was, I think, for our generation, those were the movies that hit at that time for us. So it makes sense for us to talk a little bit about that. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:33:50) Yeah. Well, and I think that, too, one of the things that we'll eventually talk about as well, maybe not with the Phantom Menace, but just in general, because I do think that we'll get multiple episodes out of this little thing called Star Wars, is that the way that it was certainly presented at the time is like these last three things, this was going to be it. That we weren't going to see anything else, right? And then obviously, we got the Clone Wars, which was awesome. J.J. Lendl (1:34:16) Right. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:34:22) But there was still that idea that like when the Clone Wars kind of petered out towards the end and didn't really resolve all the stories that it had initially set out to resolve, there was kind of this idea that's like, oh, maybe this is it. And then of course it was like, no, no, no, no, everything's back. We're going to give you the last season of Clone Wars. We're going to give you three more movies plus two. We're going to give you TV series are going to, you know, and now of course the machine is just going, going, going, going, going. And, um, but, but at the time, especially when episode three came out, like there was this very real idea that this is it. This is it. J.J. Lendl (1:34:50) Yep, this is the last hurrah. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:34:53) Yeah. And it's incredible, obviously, that it wasn't. But I do think that, yeah, that there was, for people in our age group, our bracket, if you will, there was definitely a lot of investment just emotionally into these stories. Because we grew up watching the original trilogy on VHS. And I mean, just wearing those tapes out, right? J.J. Lendl (1:35:16) VHS in. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:35:20) Oh, you're gonna break my heart because I don't have mine anymore. And it makes me so sad that I don't. J.J. Lendl (1:35:28) Yes, yes. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:35:31) Yeah, yeah. But but anyway, all that said, yes, so we are going to start our conversations because I'm sure there will be many about Star Wars with Episode One, The Phantom Menace. And I know that there are some people that we've had the pleasure of talking to on this show or that I've had the pleasure of talking to on this show in the past that happen to like that that that little property a bit themselves. So maybe just maybe I'll be able to get some of those folks to come on and talk about Star Wars since they've already come on and talked about quantum leap. J.J. Lendl (1:35:53) Yeah. I would be. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:36:01) Which could be a lot of fun. Yeah. J.J. Lendl (1:36:03) Yeah, and you know, I think that on top of that, you know, I'm very fortunate to be an official Star Wars artist. Yes. And so, you know, maybe possibly, you know, in coordination with us dropping a little episode about Star Wars, we could tie in maybe some sort of, I don't know, artwork giveaway something. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:36:13) What? Yeah. Get some of those puzzles. Exactly. Yeah. But but I will say this. I will say this, that if you you know, if you've made it this far and it's the first time ever watching, thank you. But make sure make sure you hit that subscribe button so that you can get notified whenever new episodes drop. J.J. Lendl (1:36:33) With, you know, yes, details to be decided. Yeah. Something to stay tuned for. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:36:55) So you won't miss anything, especially those opportunities to take part in, you know, some awesome giveaways for JJ's incredible artwork. You know, head over to jjlendall .com, click on that Star Wars button, and you're going to get to just see some of the awesome stuff that he has done. Sadly, the Phantom Menace print is sold out, but you can still look at it and still appreciate it for what it is. And then go and, you know, J.J. Lendl (1:37:18) Yes. Yeah. Look at Spring. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:37:22) let the FOMO hit in and buy every single other one so they don't actually get sold out. J.J. Lendl (1:37:27) These are all, you know, when you're working with limited edition prints, if there's something you want and you can afford it, just get it. Don't be kicking yourself down the line. That's my advice. That's my self -serving advice. But I do mean it. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:37:37) Yeah. For sure, for sure. And of course, while you're there, you can also. While you're there, you can also head over to the Fates wide wheel store front and you can check out the amazing merch there, including the T -shirts, the hats, all of the quantum leap season two episode posters, including that awesome secret history one, which which we adore. And as do the people who made. J.J. Lendl (1:38:03) It doesn't come with the cat hair, unfortunately. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:38:05) the episode. Well, you know, it's occupational hazard, right? When you're dealing with with two exhausted parents. Yeah. So speaking of which, it's time for us to go home. But I just want to say, JJ, thank you so much for coming on and talking about the finale and you know, and everything else. It's always a pleasure and I can't wait to do more. J.J. Lendl (1:38:09) Right. . Yes. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:38:32) And you know, just for everyone, so everyone knows we will be back in two weeks. I open a show next week. So it's going to be busy, busy, busy for me. But after that happens, there'll be a little, little free time in the evenings again. And we'll we'll we'll be talking about the Phantom Menace, which I'm looking forward to. So thank you very much, JJ. J.J. Lendl (1:38:46) Let's get. Thank you, Sue. I appreciate it. Sam Fain (they/them) (1:38:55) Absolutely. Absolutely. So all of you, thank you so much for listening, watching, liking, subscribing, following along patrons. Thank you so much from the bottom of my heart. I really, really, really appreciate your support. Thanks for keeping me going. Thanks for, you know, making me think on those mornings when I'm just sitting there going. don't know. I don't know if I have it in me to post a reel or do I need to fire off a tweet or do I need to do this or do I need to do that? And I think about the fact that there are people that follow along and enjoy this and are part of this and feel like a community and I feel uplifted and all of a sudden I'm like, Yeah, I want to do that. I want to look into the camera and I just want to tell people thank you so much. I really appreciate you and I'm glad you're here. And I hope you're doing well. And I hope that you're enjoying all of this too, because I know I am. So leave a comment. Tell us what you think. But in the meantime, Take care of yourselves, take care of one another, stay safe out there, and always, always, always follow in the footsteps of Sam, Ben, and Addison, and leap responsibly.

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