November 16, 2023


Quantum Leap | "Secret History" with Eliza Taylor, Drew Lindo, & Dean Georgaris

Quantum Leap | "Secret History" with Eliza Taylor, Drew Lindo, & Dean Georgaris
Fate's Wide Wheel: A Quantum Leap Podcast
Quantum Leap | "Secret History" with Eliza Taylor, Drew Lindo, & Dean Georgaris

Nov 16 2023 | 01:46:14


Show Notes

It's a supershow about a super show! Eliza Taylor (Hannah Carson), Drew Lindo (EP/Writer), and Dean Georgaris (EP/Writer/Co-Showrunner) join the show for an amazing in-depth interview and Eliza's first QL-related! You will not want to miss this one.

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Episode Transcript

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You. Hello. Welcome to Fate's Wide Wheel. I am your host, Sam Fane, and I am thrilled to be bringing you three exclusive interviews this week on a super show of sorts covering Secret history, the latest episode of Quantum Leap. That's episode two six, the 6th episode of the second season. And I am just delighted to be able to share the conversation that I had with Eliza Taylor, who plays Hannah Carson, her first Quantum Leap related interview. I do believe that there's probably one that aired on Access Hollywood already, but this was recorded prior to that. This is legitimately the very first interview she gave related to Quantum Leap and the first she gave following the agreement, the tentative agreement ending the SAG after strike. So I'm over the moon. It feels very validating to be able to have that. And I cannot express my gratitude enough to Drew Lindo, who also joins us, the writer of Secret history, because he is the one that helped to orchestrate all of this, and it was just such a thrill to be able to speak with him again. He's been on the show a few times, and of course, returning one of the very first guests associated with the new show to come on Fates Wide Wheel. Dean Georgias, executive producer and co showrunner. So excited to have Dean back. Dean shares a lot of really wonderful information about the development of season two, what was happening behind the scenes as they were basically prepping season two while still in production on season one. Just a lot of excellent stuff, some of which we've already hinted at, even on Fate's Wide wheel that the fandom has kind of been talking about. But to get some of the confirmations that he was able to offer through the course of this interview is pretty spectacular. Eliza shares some incredible stories, including the story of how she was cast as Hannah, which I found to be just, I don't know, it was incredibly honest and open and fascinating to hear her process, and I think you'll really enjoy that story, as well as, of course, lots of stories about the production of Secret history, specifically some wonderful stuff. So I don't want to talk too long before we get to all of that, but I did want to mention a couple of things right up front. First of all, if you're watching this, do me a favor, hit that subscribe button. Like the video. Leave a comment it absolutely helps the show, helps the channel grow, and I certainly want to continue to do. Please, please, like, subscribe comment if you can. Also want to give a huge shout out, of course, to the partner of Fateswide Wheel Studio, JJ. JJ Lindell, who designed the beautiful new logo that you see, the banners that you see on all of the websites, as well as the incredible Secret History poster which is integrated into the graphic for this episode of Fateswide Wheel. I cannot thank him enough for all of his work and sharing his talents with the community. Head over to You'll find a link there over to the shop on Studio JJ, which you can order that print of secret history. You can order it on a T shirt. It looks amazing on a T shirt. You can also order Fateswide wheel associated materials like hats, T shirts, et cetera. And there's some other really great stuff over there, and there will continue to be amazing prints and posters as we continue to discuss a lot of other stuff not just related to Quantum Leap, although Quantum Leap obviously will still be featured heavily on the show. We're prepping an episode celebrating the 60th anniversary of Doctor who, which I am thrilled to do. I cannot wait. Should be very exciting. We're going to be talking about the story of the Daleks, which of course will be airing on November 23 in honor of the 60th anniversary in a shortened, trimmed, condensed, if you will, colorized version. So that's very exciting. We're going to actually record before we see that, but we've got lots of thoughts in general about the story, the history of Doctor who, and there'll be a poster reveal and I think JJ might actually be working up something a little different from what yoU've already seen, so that'll be pretty cool. Also, want to give a quick shout out to Carol Davis. Carol Davis is a longtime supporter, listener, watcher, viewer of the show. Carol is also an author most known to the Quantum Leap community for authoring the final novel in the novel Range Mirrors Edge. Carol has a new collection of short stories available, so if you head over to, do a search for Carol Davis, you'll find her short stories over there as well. Carol's been fantastic, wonderful, just great friend of the show and excited for her to have published some new stuff. So check that out. And of course, huge Shout out over to Quantum Leap podcast. They have some awesome stuff dropping right now as well. So after you've checked this out, feel free to head over and check out what they've got going on, including an interview with Drew and the director Pamela Romanowski. I'm very much looking forward to seeing what she has to say myself. Also thrilled that Caitlin Bassett will be joining Fates Wide Wheel again. She and I are going to have a conversation this weekend. I'm really looking forward to that. So there'll be lots of stuff over Thanksgiving week for people, especially subscribers of the YouTube channel. You'll get all those notifications first, and you can come over and watch all of the goodness coming your way. Head over to the Fates wide wheel Patreon for an exclusive behind the scenes look into the creation of the Secret History poster by JJ Lindell. You can subscribe at any tier, whether it's a dollar to $10, whatever. You will get access to that video, and you will continue to get access to behind the scenes videos as we produce those, which I'm really looking forward to doing. It was very enlightening. I loved hearing about JJ's process, just his inspirations, his influences, and seeing the piece come together from that first kind of raw sketch all the way through to the finished product was so cool. I cannot recommend the video enough so it gives you the opportunity to support the show and check out a really cool video. You can do that over at the Patreon. Now, of course, as always, we have to make sure that we are setting rights and wrongs out there in the world. So before you do any of that, before you visit the store, before you visit the Patreon, before you do any of that, make sure you're helping out in your community in any way that you can. Whether that's through financial donation or volunteering your time. Help the world at large see beyond your community if you're able to. I will always, of course, recommend the Trevor Project. And right now, especially Doctors Without Borders. The work that they are doing all the time is crucial, but right now in particular, they are doing some work that is frightening. And I think that they need as much support as they can possibly get because it's coming unfortunately in short supply from certain areas. So Doctors Without Borders will certainly always be a charity that I support. Personally, I've supported them for years now. I think even before this podcast started, that's how long I've been supporting them. So Doctors Without Borders will always be a charity near and dear to my heart that I'm willing to support. And I feel like they just do incredible work, dangerous work sometimes, but vital work. So certainly help out if you can. And if after all of that, of course you are interested in supporting the podcast, by all means, please do. It helps. It allows me to do some wonderful things, some essential things, like even buying this solid state drive, for instance, because one of my external hard drives decided to crash on me and I nearly lost every single fates wide wheel related raw file in the history of the podcast. That was a scary moment. But luckily, through your kindness, your donations, this is one of the things I was able to purchase specifically for the show. So it's stuff like that that really helps to keep the show going and make sure that I don't lose things that we may want to revisit down the road. You never know. All right, I have talked long enough. It is time to get to the main event. We're going to head over now to the interview with Eliza Taylor, Drew Lindo, and Dean Georgias. I think you're going to enjoy this one. It was a lot of fun and very enlightening. A couple of quick notes. Dean Georgias had to leave about an hour, ten hour, twelve into the interview, and we weren't able to do, like, really proper goodbyes, although there is kind of a goodbye, so he just kind of disappears. And Eliza had to do the same thing. Her son was actually waking up from nap time, and so she had to kind of jet again. We did a goodbye, but it wasn't necessarily the proper goodbye that you would normally get. Drew and I got to talk for a little bit. After that, he and I got some proper goodbyes in, but that's what I've got for you all is this amazing, amazing interview with Eliza Taylor, Drew Lindo, and Dean Joe Jarris. I cannot thank them enough for joining Fates Wide Wheel, and I am so glad that I get to share this with you. So in the meantime, enjoy, take care of yourselves, take care of one another, stay safe out there, and leap responsibly right into the Quantum Leap super show with Eliza Taylor, Drew Lindo, and Dean Georgias. Hello, fellow travelers. Welcome to Fate's Wide Wheel. I'm your host, Sam, and welcome, fellow travelers. I am joined by three members of the Quantum Leap team, and I am super excited to have Dean Georgia returning. Dean, how are you? [00:09:13] Speaker B: I'm good. How are you? [00:09:14] Speaker A: I'm doing fantastic. It's good to have you back. [00:09:17] Speaker B: Good to be able to be back. [00:09:19] Speaker A: Yeah, right. Absolutely. And then the writer of this week's episode, Secret History, Drew Lindo returning as well. Drew, how are you? [00:09:28] Speaker C: I'm feeling great. I'm happy to be here. It's always a pleasure. [00:09:32] Speaker A: Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for being here. And with all due respect, gentlemen, someone who I am probably most excited to have on the show, save you. The best for last is Eliza Taylor, who plays Hannah Carson in Quantum Leap. Eliza, welcome to the show. Thank you so much for being. [00:09:47] Speaker D: Oh, thank you for having me. I'm very excited to be here. [00:09:51] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I asked you right before we started. This is the first chance that you've gotten to talk about the show due to the strike, right? [00:10:01] Speaker D: Yes, it is. Yeah. We'll see how it goes. It's been a while since we shot this, so I might need some help from Dean and Drew. [00:10:15] Speaker C: Before the writer strike. So it's that far. It's like a different time and place, literally. [00:10:20] Speaker D: It just was the whole. [00:10:25] Speaker A: I mean, it does feel like a small lifetime ago, for know. Speaking of which, Eliza, I'll go ahead and start with you. With the strike resolving and being over, and now you can get back to work and you can do this sort of stuff. How are you feeling? How does it feel that things have gotten not necessarily back to normal, but certainly things are open and running again. [00:10:48] Speaker D: Yeah, it's a big relief. I'm so happy for both our unions. The industry has obviously changed so much, and we needed a fair contract to reflect that. And, gosh, I'm just so excited to get back to work. I've had an amazing six months with my little boy and my husband, which was really special. But, yeah, time to get back out there. [00:11:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. In fact, I noticed. I believe you posted an Instagram reel. You have an appearance coming up, don't you? At like a. [00:11:30] Speaker D: Do I do. I'm going to uptrecht or Amsterdam is where I'm landing, and I'm doing Dutch Comic Con, so I'm really excited about that. [00:11:42] Speaker A: That's super cool. I don't know if they'll have seen the Quantum Leap episodes yet, unfortunately. I don't know. Dean, do you know if they'll have seen them over there? [00:11:54] Speaker B: Track of where we are? I would know. But this video sort of. They sell it all over the world. They don't necessarily tell us where and when. [00:12:07] Speaker A: Right. [00:12:07] Speaker D: I'll be sure to report back. [00:12:11] Speaker A: I'm sure that there are some industrious folks that have probably already seen them by some measure or not. But I hope that goes well. It sounds like, again, to be able to get out there again and talk about doing what you love as well as, of course, doing it has got to feel like such a wonderful relief. ANd certainly in light of getting a fair contract as well, it's got to feel good. [00:12:34] Speaker D: Yeah, it feels amazing. It's been really interesting doing comic cons and not being able to talk about any show. So we've been getting a lot of food questions. If you could have one superpower, what would it be? That sort of thing. Our panels have been super interesting. But I'm excited to talk about TV and doing what we love, for sure. [00:13:00] Speaker A: Yeah. Dean, I'll ask you real quick. How does it feel now that you could start actually filming a show again? I know that you've been working, writing, and other production elements have certainly been in motion, but now you can get in front of a camera again. [00:13:17] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I can stay behind the camera. [00:13:19] Speaker A: Well, no. [00:13:24] Speaker B: We'Ll start filming on the 27th. I think we're all anxious, eagerly awaiting that day. The way the strike happened, there wasn't really a proper sort of goodbye or pause at the end of the season because we really weren't sure when the strike would be called. And then it was actually called instantly. And crew becomes family and you're excited to work with them, you're excited to see them, you're excited that people can go back to making a living. And it's been fun to sort of rediscover the work because we were away from it for a while. I think all of us in the room have been anxiously awaiting getting these episodes out to the audience, particularly as the season progresses. I think we're all really happy with season two, so that part's been great. [00:14:22] Speaker C: It's also rare. [00:14:23] Speaker A: I can imagine. [00:14:26] Speaker C: It'S also rare for us to have. Had been able to stop and then have eight completed episodes to digest at once before. When we came back, all of them were done. Our post team had finished all of them. So usually you're just going at that speed of putting track in front of the train as episodes are airing. But we could actually sit and sort of digest all eight completed episodes before we went back to nine through 13. So that's also very cool for the creative process because you really are aware of the strengths and the adjustments that you're making to the story because you're seeing it written for the third time. Right, the page, the set, and then in the edit. And we have all that information now, which is pretty cool. [00:15:04] Speaker A: You practically read my mind, Drew. I was literally getting ready to ask you about having had the episodes and been able to kind of sit with them for a while. But to add to that, even to come back now and be working on nine through 13 while you still have, of course, six, seven, and eight yet to air and six being the episode that you wrote, what's the excitement level been in the writers room and for you personally to be back and writing and working while still having some episodes that were indeed filmed so long ago, waiting to air for the audience? [00:15:41] Speaker C: I'm thrilled. I mean, I've been very excited for this episode to arrive because I just feel like it was made to be, like a giant ball of delight. But I think also there's a momentum that this point in the season is starting to get into with six, seven, and eight. That is very exciting. It feels like the first half of the season, Ben's going through this really emotionally charged breakup and this loss of time, and his whole life has blown up. And we played the honest, emotional reality of that for him and for Caitlin's character. So now this section of the season is really designed to be like Ben's journey back into the light and this new chapter for him. And so we have that with the episodes that you're about to see in the coming weeks, but also for us as writers, we have momentum of what comes beyond and where we're headed with the season. And what Dean and Martin came up with this year for the story we're telling is really exciting and really emotional. So there's a sense of momentum and real narrative of buildup that we're working with right now that I cannot wait for people to see. [00:16:47] Speaker A: Dean, you know, speaking of which, the season starts, obviously, with this huge paradigm shift, and there's been this three year time jump for the folks back at the project. AddisoN's moved on. Ben's been declared dead as an audience. We've had now five, six weeks to sit with that and to see where that has gone through the course of these episodes. Did you feel like, especially with episodes three and four, there was not necessarily a need, but this natural progression that was able to resolve a lot of those big emotional narrative points that had been set up in that first episode. And now, as Drew said, you can kind of move on into a little bit of different territory. [00:17:33] Speaker B: Yeah. When Martin first pitched the idea of the time jump, there were two or three sort of storylines that suggested themselves, the first being the Ben Addison, what would happen between them, the breakup, if you will, and then that suggested a Tom character, and then it also gave birth to the character of Hannah. And I know this is airing after 206, which is so nice, because now people understand that there's more to her than meets the eye, but she's not a time traveler. I think, to answer your question, three and four are always kind of designed in our minds to be. We need to get this stuff out. Normally, when you break up with someone, you don't keep working with them, and also, you normally don't have one of you has experienced no time. So we didn't want to drag that out. And you don't want to see people fighting over and over again. You don't want to see them saying the same thing. I mean, one of the challenges after the first season was really, if you really stopped and thought about it, how much longer were we going to play? I'm sorry I didn't make it home. This leap. Oh, it's okay, honey. To us, I think it felt like it was worth the risk to try to expand the storytelling this way. Like, obviously, whenever you break apart your two leads, that's a scary thing to do. But it quickly opened up so many possibilities for the characters, for the performers, and for the writing room. To me, it ended up, I think it was a win win, even though there may be risk involved and ultimately, for the greater story. There's no love story if there's no obstacles. And we can't just keep going with the same obstacle. [00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:42] Speaker C: Right. [00:19:47] Speaker A: I think one of the things that I noticed in particular once we got to 205 one night in Koreatown is that it seemed as though by moving past those first four episodes and being able to get through that character arc for Ben and Addison, that it opened us up in this wonderful way to play with these character arcs for everyone, which had been ongoing in those first four episodes as well. But it felt like 205 really focused in on the fact that we can tell all of these different stories about this entire cast, this wonderful cast that we have, as opposed to being restricted to this myth arc or just Ben and Addison and whatnot. And surprisingly enough, the episode does not crumble under the weight of all of that. You've got this wonderful ensemble. Can you talk a little bit about? And, Drew, feel free to hop in on this as well. The way that you navigate that path with so many characters and so much going on. [00:20:48] Speaker B: Well, I think you're looking for opportunities. You map out your season, and I'll talk more about the character of Hannah in a second because I think the whole journey of when we thought her, the whole story is worth, you know, you map your season out, and we had an understanding of what Ben was going to be going through, and then we sort of understood what Addison was going to be going through and when. And then we were adding Hannah to that triangle and Tom making it a quadrangle, and we sort of saw there were going to be. Besides, in every episode where we can now have actual character drama because three years have passed and they all are mourning the loss of Ben, we saw, we had a few episodes where we were going to basically be able to just. We were going to focus on the leap, but we were going to learn much more about the characters that the audience had grown to love back at the HQ. And we're always looking for those opportunities. As writers, what you don't want to do is force them. You don't want to do the, lIke, oh, the car broke down and no one else is around, so I guess this week. But it's been exciting to get to hand the actors material that was a little different than what they did last year, particularly back at the HQ. They had to play exposition all the time, which, as Eliza can tell you as an mean, it's not bad, but it's one mean. Like, I want to see Ben song going through some things. I want people to know that it hurts to lose someone to time travel. It's really hard to dramatize an absence like we had all of season one, and it's, oh, my God, Ben's gone. Oh, my God, Ben's gone. But none of us really feel that. Do you know what mean? Like, there's no real impact. You're not seeing an impact. And this way, with the time jump, we can dramatize absence and we do it by literally creating a loss. Like, what was it? Like he died. Oh, my God, he died. What did that do? To know it pushed him across barrier and he turned alcohol. Like, what did it do to Jen? What did he eat? You're going to find out. [00:23:21] Speaker C: So sorry. [00:23:22] Speaker B: That's a long winded answer. [00:23:23] Speaker A: No, it's great. Though, appropriately, I think one of the joys of having you all here is that, yes, I want to talk, obviously, about secret history, but at the same time, there's a lot to catch up on. And one of those things, of course, you mentioned the introduction of new. You know, we get both Hannah and Tom, and I want to talk about Tom a little bit more later just because of his impact on secret history. But let's just jump right to Hannah and talk about the genesis of the character and the decision to bring her in. [00:23:56] Speaker B: So once we had the time jump, one of the reasons behind it was we wanted Ben to be able to have some kind of connection during a leap, because if you think about it, Ben is always having connections, but not as himself, and he never sees the same people again. And if you stop and really think about that, what a strange, nomadic existence that is. And we wanted to see Ben have these connections, have these feelings. And so first thing of the time jump was realizing we could split Addison up. And the very second thing was this notion of Hannah. And since we're after episode six, I think it's safe to say the audience at least, is starting to understand that Hannah plays a role maybe that you don't expect, because you're so used to leaper X's and you're so used to sort of twists and turns. It's like, well, no, but there are people who are actually living their life, and they're living their life through this time continuum. And what if you happen to encounter an individual who, by her nature, and then we can go into why she is the way she is, but by her nature, and it's very important to her character, she has this ability to see beyond the generally accepted rules. Right. I think you get a sense of it in three, and you certainly get a sense of it in six, and I think it's Hannah's superpower. We all take these things for granted, and the truth is, most of this stuff is wrong. Like, once upon a time, we all thought the world was flat, and we were sure, you know what I mean? Hannah, we introduced and wrote it so beautifully. I love that it takes her a beat to process the time travel of it all, but it's not like, give me 50 examples. I still don't believe you. It makes perfect sense because some part of Hannah intuitively has always known that there's more going on than meets the eye. And that really appealed to all of us because it's kind of one of the things we wanted to say about Quantum Leap as a show and as a technology. Like, there's so much more that could be going on here. And so very early on, circumstances were such that I decided I would write a letter from Hannah to another character on our show, and I'll just leave it at that. And it sort of became for me, once we did that letter, I kind of knew. I think we, as a room, understood her whole arc, which was really fun, because it's neat to, as a room, write a character among several writers and feel like, when you look at it as a whole, you're like, yeah, it feels as if it was written by one person. I mean, I remember reading Drew's script and thinking, he's got the voice exactly right. [00:27:08] Speaker C: It helped that Dean had written that letter, but also Dean had written, we should talk about the audition process that Eliza absolutely crushed. There were, like, three huge permutations of her character. So there were, like, three different sides that Dean wrote that was to capture the complexity of who she was. Eliza, do you want to talk about what you just did so explicitly when you were reading for the part, because she has multiple incarnations that kind of come across in those sides that were, like, super clear to everybody. [00:27:43] Speaker B: Let me set the stage for her. This part was important enough that we did chemistry reads, and we did them in person because COVID had waned. And so we had a list of, like, we sort of narrowed it down to four or five actresses who we absolutely loved, none of whom we were like, none of them are going to do this. We got to do four chemistry reads in person. And Eliza was. Were you in Hawaii? Were you in. [00:28:15] Speaker D: I was in Hawaii. [00:28:18] Speaker B: The most amazing thing was. And she did her chemistry read with Ray via Zoom. [00:28:25] Speaker A: Wow. [00:28:26] Speaker B: But I'll say this is. And, sorry. I'll let Eliza talk. But again, by the time we get to the end of the season, I think you'll see how many different qualities Hannah has to have in order to believe the story. We. I just. I think we all just saw Eliza and Ray on that zoom, and I remember Martin and I were like, again, we were like, you think she's going to say yes? [00:29:01] Speaker A: Well, you all are making my job easy, answering questions before I even ask them. But, yes, Eliza, please. I would love to hear about the casting process and what it was like, and especially doing a chemistry read over Zoom. I think that's fascinating. [00:29:16] Speaker D: Yeah. For me, personally, it was a strange time. I was living in Australia, and I was looking after my little baby, and I hadn't worked in, like, a year, and I was doing auditions, and I was in a bit of a slump, and I was feeling a little bit like, do I remember how to do this? And I met with my manager right Before I'd gotten the Quantum Leap audition, but I hadn't done it yet. And obviously, we do everything by self tape these days. And so my manager just said, I don't know who this is, but you've lost your confidence. You've lost that get up. And, like, he was like, this next audition, I don't care what you have to do. Just really consider the character. Really look at your hair, your makeup. Work it with Bob, who's my husband and is always my scene partner, and just go and smash it like you always do. And so I went into this audition with a determination that I hadn't had in a really long time. I was like, okay, who is this woman? And she was so fabulously written, even though I had dummy sides, I think. Right? It wasn't. [00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't remember. We wanted to see different, and we hadn't written all the scripts yet, so we kind of had to. Kind of had to just. It's fine. I mean, listen, writing the character of Hannah, that's a wonderful character for all. [00:31:00] Speaker D: Of us to get to. [00:31:02] Speaker B: We wrote. We wrote some dummy sides, if you will, starting with the idea that her name is a palindrome. I think that was the very first. [00:31:08] Speaker D: That's right. [00:31:09] Speaker A: Answering another one of my questions. [00:31:15] Speaker D: Yeah. [00:31:15] Speaker B: But. [00:31:16] Speaker D: So I went in to film this self tape, and I felt like I knew her and I felt a very similar determination to her in the scenes that I was doing. And I guess that came through because a few weeks later, I had the chemistry read and I was so nervous, especially knowing that there were three other women who were up for this role who were going to be in person. I just went, well, it's probably not going to be me this time, but there was instant chemistry, and something did click via Zoom somehow. And I got off and off the zoom and I went, you know, I think I might have it. And here we are. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Yeah, it's funny because there's actually a moment in episode 202, Ben and Teller, where we see Ben on the screen and Addison is watching the screen. And I remarked at the time, I was like, it's amazing that they're able to connect through the screen without being in the same room to one other. So to hear that that was possible in real life is fantastic. I love hearing that. And I think that from the first moment that I saw Hannah, it was funny because it took me a split second to be like, okay, that's her. But is that her? Is this how it's happening? Because it's a very kind of unassuming introduction, which I think was really smart. But then, of course, the minute you start talking to bed, it's like, oh, yeah, that's definitely her. Because it's just so lovely. And it was throughout the course of that episode in closure Encounters, there were just so many wonderful moments that I know I couldn't wait for. I mean, I was sold right away. Sorry. I do have to go back, though. Dean, you mentioned her name being a palindrome, and I don't imagine. I don't know if there's anything more to it. And if there is, I don't imagine you're going to tell me, but I just have to at least ask you because it was something that I noted on Twitter on my watch along, and nobody commented on it at all. And I was kind of like, well, but it's obvious her name is a palindrome. So can you talk about that at? [00:33:44] Speaker B: I mean, look, first of all, I think we tried about three or four different names for her. The name changed for a while, and then we all draw. I think when we build a character, we draw on people we know, but we also draw on characters who made an impression on me. There was actually a character in Jason Matthews book who's actually an espionage book. There was a character named Hannah Archer who I thought had some qualities that this Hannah had or this character had. So I was like, oh, Hannah. And I always like the name Hannah. And so then it just so happens it's a palindrome. And immediately it made sense that, oh, she's the kind of person who would remark on that. So in the audition sides, I don't know that it's not on the air, but in the audition sides, she talks a little bit about the fact that her name's a palindrome. [00:34:38] Speaker A: Nice. So, Eliza, I have to know. I mean, I am unabashedly, probably one of the biggest Raymond Lee fans right now. I just love his work. I think he's fantastic on the show. And I say this completely honestly, that he's probably one of my favorite actors, not just because of Quantum Leap. I just love his work so much on the show. Can you talk a little bit about that Zoom reading with him and just what that was like? Had you ever met him before? Was that the very first time that you'd ever encountered him? [00:35:10] Speaker D: That was the first time that we met, yeah. But we have a mutual friend, Chris Larkin, who I worked with for, like, seven years on the hundred. And he always talked about how wonderful Ray was, and they'd done some theater together. And so when I got on the Zoom, I was, you know, you know, Chris and we had a nice little chat there. But when we got into the scenes, there's something about Ray where you immediately feel, know, you feel like he's one of those actors that's very giving and holds a really safe space for you to play in. And that's the dream. That's all you can ask for, really, from a scene partner. And I got that straight away, and I have been getting that ever since. [00:36:15] Speaker A: That's awesome. I love hearing that. I mean, it definitely comes across. It's not hard to imagine that being the drew. You know, Dean mentioned earlier that in seeing your writing on secret history and writing Hannah, that it was very easy for him to just be like, yeah, that's Hannah, can you talk a little bit about the process of writing the character. And was it easy for you? And kind of hearing that from Dean, was it just sort of like, yeah, I know the character, or was that kind of a surprise? You were just sort of like, okay, good. I got it right. [00:36:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:53] Speaker C: I would say that I had two big tools in the toolkit for this episode. One of them, know, again, there were, like, three different audition sides that were written that showed sort of Hannah's intellectual, you know, romantic side. Some of the pathos of things that she just different emotional colors to play that I'd seen Eliza play from the audition. And then when we got to cast Eliza, I was like, this is great, because I've worked with Eliza in the past. We worked together in the hundred in a very different know. Clark and Hannah could not be more different. But I'd seen her know the words that Dean had written and then also some of the materials Dean mentioned earlier that he'd written from her character's point of view. So you have both of those things. That's already a huge advantage in terms of who the person is that you're trying to write for. But what was really exciting was that the episode was a reintroduction of the character. So we meet her in this sort of unassuming peripheral state in 203 and 206 is designed to be like her real unveiling to the story and to Ben. So that's an opportunity for me as a writer. And I remember something Dean told me when I started working on the story was because every week, Ben meets somebody who has a dream or an obstacle or something that's really in history has gotten them down or defeated or destroyed them and that Ben is going to help them overcome. And something that Dean said at the beginning was, she's not downtrodden like, we know she's a woman in the scientific, academic world that is completely male dominated, but she's amazing. She's not downtrodden. So just that little instinct helped me quite a bit because it was like, okay, so what if instead of it being a person who's desperately in need of help, it's somebody who actually has an indomitable spirit and doesn't know that she's going to lose. She doesn't know that her history is going to be doomed to some degree. She's going to be held back. She believes she's going to break through. And we've all been there. What Eliza spoke about in her audition process, it's the same thing with any artist. There are points in your career where you're like, I thought I was going to do something great with my life, but I'm not sure it's going to actually go any farther than this. And that became very personal for me as well, as an artist, where you all have moments of doubt, where you don't know what's going to happen or where it's going to go. So that gave it a beautiful quality to the story. Right. That Ben and the audience knows. Hannah's future is not as bright as she believes, but we love her because she's still chasing it. She knows the ODs, and she's going for it, and she's not deterred. So that really gave a great framework. And then also, I think, when I got to the first scene of accelerator in the Pocket watch, I was like, she's playful, like, she's fun. There's a mischievous quality to her. And so all those things came together in a real way. And then at the end of the story, what we were building to that felt extremely personal to me was the dynamic of a finite romance, the feeling of a train leaving a station. I've been in those situations where you meet somebody and, you know, for one reason or another, you're not going to have a lot of time together, and it supercharges your time in a way. It feels very vital and very intimate, very immediate. So this feeling of, like, at the end of the episode, once that secret's out, there's a sense of not wanting it to end was, again, super personal and very relatable. So I would say it was a joy to write. I had so much support and so many great resources and so many great people to work with on it. And then the only thing better than writing was watching it be filmed, because seeing Eliza bring her to life in such a way and find humor and wonderful little moments of pathos that I didn't even expect. It was just a dream come true. So I had everything I needed, I would say. [00:40:35] Speaker A: I certainly think so. Having witnessed the episode now a few times, I think that's absolutely true. To go back just a little bit, can you talk a bit about just kind of breaking this episode, especially, again, with the first five being a little heavier and having all of this character drama that kind of has to be resolved. And then, of course, we get one night in Koreatown, which does this amazing stuff with magic, but also has a very different, a little bit heavier kind of story element and plot to it as well. So coming off of all of that, what was it like when secret history was in its infancy and just being thought up as opposed to kind of having a plan for where you were going to go with it. [00:41:22] Speaker C: Well, the cool thing about doing episodes of Quantum Leap is also the hard thing about doing episodes of Quantum Leap, which is it can be anywhere at any time. So you have to pick something really special because you only write so many episodes a season. So I think every writer on the show is like, which one's going to be mine and where in time to pick? And we have this board full of things we want to get to or try at. Some .1 of those was definitely, like, an indie style adventure for Ben, but that is not the most producible idea in the world we don't have. It's just not super produceable. And then also, separately, I'd been really interested in exploring Operation Paperclip in the show because it is a piece of American history a lot of people don't know about. And I wanted to get into it. And then somewhere in that world, I started looking into Princeton in the Einstein and Matterhorn and Fusion and all this stuff that was going on in one place. And that sort of crystallized for me that I could bring both of those elements into a story taking place in Princeton, which would be a really rich, interesting, cool point in history, especially for Ben. It'd be a place he'd want to go, which is not always the case. A lot of times we're playing the fish out of water of, oh, no, I'm in this situation. I have no preparedness but to see Ben go somewhere he would love to visit and be surrounded by his heroes. And so much. It felt very much like my college experience, like going to film school. It's like, I can't believe I get. [00:42:46] Speaker B: To make movies with my friends. [00:42:48] Speaker C: This is amazing. What it gave was a great context for an episode, but when I realized it was going to be a Hannah episode, it was like, this is the most fun, romantic, possible adventure I could put these two characters in that would bring them together, that would let them bond over things that they love. They love Einstein. They love the romance of physics and all these things that there's no better thing to celebrate than the things you love. It's much better than the things you hate. So it just became a great. It was something that was fun, but it was also really Germane, to the point in the season. It was less a response to what we'd done and more just like a great vehicle for what we needed to do, let's say. [00:43:22] Speaker A: Yeah, one of the things that I said in kind of hyping it up a little bit on social media is it feels kind of like this sort of exhalation after what we've gotten from the first five episodes. And the amazing thing about it is just timing wise, with the strike ending with just where we are, the time of year, it being everything, it kind of just fits perfectly that it really does feel like this great exhale. In a lot of ways. The history, as you mentioned, is fantastic. There's lots of great humor, there's certainly heart, and there's hope. I mean, you hit all those four H's that Deborah holds so dear, which is awesome. You mentioned to Ben's kind of just joy in being in this situation. I remarked to you off mic, this might be the first time that we've gotten that since the second episode of the series Atlantis, when he's on the Space Shuttle. This might be the first leap that we've seen Ben being really excited about. So can you talk just a little bit about getting the chance to do that as opposed to some of these fish out of water things? [00:44:25] Speaker B: Exactly. The reason for something like the time jump is exactly because there's only so much genuine joy he can experience. If that's like, all right, honey, I've broken your heart. That's all I wanted to say. That's very much by design. Getting to see the genuine moments is very much by design. But how drew pulled it off, he'll have to tell you. That mean I. [00:44:55] Speaker C: To be fair, the fish out of water thing is where we get a lot of our dramatic tension, and it's a great part of the show. I think what we are playing with every season is, like, when do we zig instead of Zag a little bit? When is someone else in the imaging chamber? When is something a little bit different? So this was just a way to do something a little bit different, because it's fun to see Ben be somewhere he's not really prepared for. That's part of the fun of the show. This was just something where, for a personal episode, where let someone get to know the real him, it also fit with, like, let's send him somewhere he would feel at home. He would feel at home. It's like, if you're a big Elvis fan, you get to record with him or go to Graceland. It's like, that's a great moment for you to be in your element with somebody else and to bond over a shared passion, like physics. And it's. It serves the story that we're telling now. And I wouldn't want to do the same way every time because it's fun to put him in different situations. But this one was like. It just felt like the right story to tell. And we're also always hunting for a world that is exciting for an audience to go to. So you can make Princeton exciting for non science nerds if, you know, secret rooms and chambers and sword fights. [00:46:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. We'll get to that a little bit more in a second, but I want to pivot over to Eliza for a moment and talk a little bit about kind of just developing the character of Hannah as an actor. And certainly one of the things that, I mean, anyone who's listening and anyone who's aware of who you are prior to Quantum Leap is that you have a dialect that you have to assume for this show. But one of the things that I found fascinating about your dialect in the show is that it feels at once like, yes, I mean, that's an American dialect, but it also feels a little classic. It doesn't just feel like somebody who walked in off the street today. Can you talk a little bit about your work with that, but just also, in general, of kind of like building Hannah and your approach to the character? [00:46:49] Speaker D: Yeah, it's funny. Actually, in my chemistry read, I went a little too hard on the old timey 1940s accent, and Dean and Martin were like, can you just reel it back a little bit? So it's funny you mentioned that. Yeah. [00:47:12] Speaker B: Take it out 100%. [00:47:16] Speaker D: Because I didn't actually do that in my original audition. It was something that, when I got these new sides for the chemistry read, I went, oh, something about that dialogue just. It clicked me into 1940s America. But developing Hannah is, I mean, she's a dream character, and I've come from playing very dramatic roles. Lot of blood, sweat, and tears in my previous work, so there's something so beautiful about Hannah. I think Dean kind of and Drew have said it all. She just thinks differently. She sees the world in a very unique way, but that's not something that bogs her down. It gives her this perspective that's so different, and she has fun with life. It's like she doesn't see this lifetime as a beginning, middle, end. She sees the possibility of living a life beyond that, and that makes her really playful, and that makes her really have fun with her surroundings, and it's a joy. And there's some really beautiful moments and really comical moments as well that I've gotten to play with, and there's a lightness to her that I just adore. So, yeah, being able to bring all that to life. But also, it's really interesting to be playing a character through different points of her life. So I've had to think about that as well. When we first meet her, she's a young lass who's trying to figure out what she's going to do with her future. And then when we see her again, she's matured and she's got a little bit more kick and class, and she's feisty as we go along. I'm trying to bring different things to her because she's aging and she's evolving. So that's really interesting to play with episode to episode, for sure. [00:49:51] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something that I picked up on and just kind of knowing the conceit of the character ahead of time, even. It's like what a unique journey for an actor to take because, yeah, you're not necessarily getting that same sense of progression that you often find in other work. You are getting these little snapshots. How much of that do you think, from your perspective? Because obviously, your number one scene partner through all this is Ben, is Ray. And so in that respect, what's it like to kind of shift? And obviously, secret History is certainly the biggest picture that we get of Hannah thus far. But shifting from the waitress in New Mexico to being the assistant and researcher at Princeton and now having knowledge of who Ben really is, how did that kind of shift your perception of the character? And specifically, again, working directly with that one character, how does that kind of affect the way that that progression might take place? [00:51:02] Speaker D: Can you break that question down for me and just. [00:51:04] Speaker A: Yeah, if I can. I don't know if I'll be able to, but I'll try. No, it's okay. The idea, know, as you know, going through these small snapshots of the character and the way that we see Hannah as viewers, is that mean almost all of your scenes are with Ben, and so knowing that you have this kind of know as an actor as well as. As the character, I'm curious how that might affect that journey, that progression. [00:51:37] Speaker D: I see what you mean. Yeah. [00:51:39] Speaker A: Okay, cool. I'm glad somebody does. No, it's okay. It was a weird. [00:51:50] Speaker D: Mean, obviously, in the very first episode that we meet Hannah, her interaction with Ben changes the course of her life. Coming across him again ten years later, however many years it is. I think it's ten, isn't it? Yeah. And then discovering who he is, who he really is, the real Ben, it's hard for that not to completely change the course of her life again. She now knows that this thing is possible. She now knows that something that she's probably theorized about in her many studies of physics and time and space is real. And I think that's definitely something that we're going to see throughout the series, how that affects her and the way that know interacts with the world. [00:52:57] Speaker C: The other cool thing is you're seeing. Know. What Eliza's playing so beautifully is she's interacting with Professor McCoy, and then there's these little grace notes in her performance of familiarity, of deja vu, of a spiritual familiarity. And so that's a really cool element of the episode, right. We wouldn't have that if we didn't have 203, we wouldn't have that color to play here. Right. Of something that feels familiar but can't be explained until you get to that moment. And so that was something really fun to see on set is, like, where we're really drawing out those moments that feel like she's onto it or not or throwing it away and can't be that. And those moments really sell the episode, but that scene in the hallway between the two of them, when he knows her last name, her first name, there's that moment where she. Have we met before? And it's such a great moment because, A, it's how she's playing it, and B, it's how Ray is responding. You see how deeply he is yearning for someone to recognize him and to know him and to connect with him, and he can't. That's against the know. The long form of storytelling we get to do this season is a real gift because you're getting to earn these moments as we get to them moment by moment and episode by episode. [00:54:13] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I have really, really enjoyed about these first six episodes is that I feel like the focus genuinely feels more on the characters than ever before. And that's not to say in the first season, we didn't get to know who these people were, but there was also a lot of other stuff going on and a lot of other questions and trying to figure out why it had been leap and what is going to happen next. And I think with this season, the lovely thing is that there's been less question of, well, what does this mean? Or what does that mean? And more question of who these people are and what they're going to do about the situations they find themselves in. And of know, I don't want to give short Shrift to the other new character because we do get another new character. Dean, can you talk a little bit about know. And certainly I want to get to you, Drew, as well, because I think you do some really lovely stuff with him. But I'll start with you, Dean. And can you talk a little bit about the genesis of that character for this? [00:55:14] Speaker B: Again, absence is really hard to dramatize. So if Addison were single, even if she were heartbroken, it would not play the same. We would not have the same drama to play. We want to give her. We. We had some basic ideas. We wanted to be true to Addison as a character. Like Addison. Addison wouldn't pick a bad guy. Addison wouldn't pick a jerk. She probably had her bad boy phase when she was, like, 18 or whatever. She's clearly out of that. And I don't think she would pick a Ben song clone either. So in a lot of ways, we started defining Tom, making sure the box that he fit in actually became fairly small because we were like, okay, it would be someone she encountered. They would probably have a shared grief. History felt right. And then the challenge was because of the pace of the storytelling, knowing that it wasn't really going to be until six, that the audience would get to see a personal side of it. And I honestly don't even remember when the room thought of having Tom be the hologram, but I just thought Drew did it so beautifully, and I thought Peter played it really just, again, understated. Yeah, this is where my wife and I met. And, yeah, it hurts, but it's not like, you know, it's just another human. I just. That was one of those ideas. I remember when we were first talking about was there are two things in this episode, I think Drew and Eliza and Peter and everyone pulled off that were pretty tip my cap. The first was getting Tom to be a hologram in a way that I bought it. I bought it. I didn't mind it, and I appreciated it. I didn't know I wanted to see it until I saw it. And the other thing was coming up with a way that I would believe that Ben Song would say to her that he's a time know. It's such a pet peeve of mine that people spill these big secrets for not very big reasons. But the way Drew built it to force Ben into a corner of, like, Hannah is inadvertently going to deliver this to the is. I don't remember if she actually says it or not, but more or less says, there's nothing you can do to stop me. [00:57:59] Speaker C: Right. [00:58:00] Speaker B: So there's like. Well, like, there's one thing that you might not be expecting. And what I love, I think so remarkable about that, though, if you think about it, is it's also because of Hannah as a character that that works. Like, you see someone know, we've seen this one plenty of did they. They don't believe it. They storm out. They spend two scenes, they think about it. Oh, my God, you're right. But the way drew set it up and the pace it and the desperation and then the really, I found myself believing that Hannah would was when we went over the season, I remember I was like, that's going to be hard. I think we'll give this one to Drew. [00:58:48] Speaker C: I was also concerned that I was on set. It was like, I really hope Eliza and Ray can sell this. It is a huge turn, and they both sell it beautifully. But also, one of my favorite moments of the episode is when she's adjusted to it. She's like, how long are you here for? It's a complete gag at a certain point because she's just already in planning mode. Let's just figure out. [00:59:09] Speaker B: Let's make sense. [00:59:10] Speaker C: But back to Tom for a second. It's funny TV writing, because I worked with a researcher on this episode, and it's funny how the sciences and the TV writing this interesting overlaps. One of them is, like, scientists share information to encourage further studies and breakthroughs in their community. And in our TV like, think tank environment of a writer's room, everybody's work builds to the next person's work, and we build off of whatever comes before. Right. So, for example, in 204, there's this beautiful bit of character work on Tom, and I believe some of the stuff that Dean put in the script where you're getting this philosophical vibe from him and this notion of sacrifices intrinsic to quantum Leap, and he's a very stable, very capable guy. So when I realize we get to six, oh, we're in the middle of the season. So at that point, it feels like the right time to go. Okay. What does someone this capable and this unflappable in the world's most awkward situation, which it is like you're with your girlfriend, her seemingly dead fiance in the past, what is under the service of that? And so finding a way to get it in the way it felt right for Tom, who's a very controlled guy, was a fun challenge for the story, but it also gave us another color to the leap. Right. Which is that as exciting as it is for Ben, as exciting as it is for Hannah, there's a bittersweet nature to it for Tom, because the better the memory, the harder it is when you lose somebody. Right? So it was a beautiful place for him, too, but it hurts now a little bit, and it's something that catches up with him. And it also gave Caitlin something new to play, too, which is she's been through so much grief this season, but to see her be the mountain to the weather at that point in the story and to really emotionally be there and be patient with someone getting someplace on their own, it fueled the story, both for a plot of why would we need Tom to go in there? But it adds something emotionally to the whole episode as well. [01:01:08] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, one of the things that I love is when Tom comes out of the imaging chamber and he says, I miss my wife today. I mean, it got me emotional. Both, I guess, all three times I've seen it now. And I love that Addison's response is complicated and it's messy and that it's not. Oh, it's okay. Don't worry about it. Everything's going to be all right. There's no easy fix. Instead, it's this acceptance and this admission of, like, yeah, this is really fucked up, but we're going to work on it, and I'm going to be here for you, and I'm going to support you. And I just really enjoyed that. Going back real quick to the moment with Ben's reveal that he's a time traveler, I ended up getting my notes out because I wanted to, just for credibility's sake. But the thing that I wrote down is you can't see it. I wrote down fucking magical, because I do. I think that the scene works so beautifully well. And the tension, the build up. She's leaving. She's taking these notes, and we know what the stakes. I mean, we've been told how awful this is going to turn out, and for him to just sit there and know Agent Robert Cook and the reaction and everything that comes after it works so incredibly well. And one of the things, Eliza, that I love about it, and we see this multiple times with Hannah is her mind is working so fast. Right. It's always working, and she's always thinking about these things. What's it like to kind of get into that headspace of someone who is clearly connecting the dots not just, like, two times faster, but maybe three or four times faster than the next person in the room? [01:02:50] Speaker D: Oh, definitely three or four times faster than me. She's smart as a whip, and it's so fun to play, but getting into that mode, and especially with Ray or with Ben, who is also. Who is on her level. And so when those guys are figuring something out, it's so sympathetic. It's just like. It's like, bang. And then we'll do this and this and this, and it's this beautiful rhythm that they have that took a lot of rehearsing. And Ray and I spent a lot of time on it off camera. When we were filming those scenes, we spent our entire lunch break just on set going over it without anyone around so we could just be ready for when the crew walked in. But it was so fun. It was like rehearsing a play in a lot of ways that day. There were so many beats and so many gear changes that we had to nail down to make it engaging and not to not just be like a transfer of information or an information overload for everybody else. So that was so much fun. And I don't know that I've ever rehearsed something like that or had the time to really get it right. And so when I got to watch it, I was really proud of what we put out there. And, yeah, it was super cool. [01:04:37] Speaker A: It really works. And again, it's lovely. [01:04:39] Speaker C: It's like a seven page scene. I mean, it's broken over two X, but it's like seven pages. And our amazing director, Pamela Romanowski, was like, we're going to have to block shoot this. So all the prep Eliza's talking about, we got to watch it on set because we ran it from beginning to end. Every take, they just ran it again and know. And so you're watching it, it really did feel like you're watching a play because that's way longer than a traditional scene. I mean, it's two scenes, but it's really one. And so they were so down, and the choreography and the movement, everything was. It's a very complex scene with big turns. And I am exceptionally proud of both of them because the way it builds and the score, everything about that moment is as special as it should be because they just absolutely delivered. [01:05:24] Speaker A: Yeah, I completely agree. [01:05:26] Speaker B: One of the things I think is really great about that scene, and I think my hope is, I think all of our hope is that after this season is over, people will sort of, when they rewatch it, they'll find that there's more and more philosophical stuff in here by, you know, all of us have had the experience of meeting certain people in our lives and having this incredible connection. Right? And people will throw around the word soulmate. And let's say Ben and Addison are soulmates. For example, like in their. So if Ben and Addison are soulmates in that way, a soulmate is a person who makes your sort of the universe make sense to you. And I think when Hannah meets a time traveler, in a way, it makes the universe make sense to her. She's had this feeling her whole life that she's always thought there's more going on. She's always believed with deeper connections, she probably turns into a big string theory person. She's aware of all these connections. But now, all of a sudden, here's someone who tells you it's something we thought about a lot, like, how would you look at the world? I remember reading an article once on how would you look at life if you knew there was a life after this? Like, if it was certain, how different would you look at? And I think it's one of those pieces of information. But my point of all this being it allows Ben and Hannah to be a different kind of soulmate. And I think that's what Drew wrote so beautifully, and that's what they played so beautifully. [01:07:18] Speaker A: Yeah, it's really interesting. I'm glad know it's funny because when you first started talking about that, I thought that you were going to kind of put the focus on Ben and what Ben needed. But I love the fact that you didn't. That you were talking about Hannah and kind of what Hannah needs and the way that Ben kind of helps her see the world and make it make sense for her, because at the same time, Ben, what he needs and I think what he gets from Hannah, it's a little bit different. Right. It's this idea that I can still connect with another human being, which is incredible. One of the things that is so incredibly lovely. And Drew, you mentioned score a second ago, and I'll go and throw this to you first, Dean, is that. I don't know if this is what it's called, but I'm calling it that and have been calling it that since. Closure Encounters is Hannah's theme. And whenever we see Hannah, or certainly in secret history, when we see Hannah in an important moment, that piece of music that plays is much like the scene. Fucking magical. As far as. Can you. Can you talk a little bit about that? [01:08:16] Speaker B: Mean. What I can talk about is that our composer, Daniel James Chan, is. I mean, he's been our composer from episode one, season one. And all he has to do with his team is score a completely different kind of show every actually, Martin, and know you give notes on everything and score comes last. And like, we almost no notes to give like, it's almost a running gag between Martin and I of just, like, how blown away. Well, he's not going to blow us away. Think I don't want to speak for him. But again, the chance to. You can do themes for characters like Hannah, and that's one of the reasons you create characters like Hannah or you these recurring characters. But I'm glad you noticed that, because the music deserves to be recognized on the show. I really wish the score could be somehow. [01:09:17] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I absolutely love it, and it reminded me a great deal of a piece of music from the classic series. Actually, there's this piece called the Leap Home Suite. And when Sam leaps home at the end of season two, spoilers for a show that's been off the air for 30 years. There's this piece of music that plays, and it gets me every time. And it's the same thing with Hannah's theme. It's lovely. Eliza, what does it feel like to have your own theme? [01:09:49] Speaker D: That was a lovely little surprise that I was not expecting, but I'll take it. And it's. [01:10:01] Speaker A: Like I said, I just love it. Drew, can you talk a little bit about. We talked about Tom and obviously the role that he plays and bringing him in and having that terrible, awkward situation between he and Ben, but then kind of, like, offsetting that with the fact that Tom's there while Ben is also with Hannah. And so it's kind of this interesting dynamic that we've got going on. Obviously, Hannah's not aware of Tom, at least not at that. Putting the three of them together in the same room and being able to kind of write that, get to. [01:10:41] Speaker C: It's always a fun part of the know. Ben caught between the observer and the person who's really there. And I won't spoil much, but there's lots more fun like that coming up, perhaps. But, yeah, I think the fun part of making Tom the Observer for the episode is that he's not familiar with working with Ben. He's familiar with the military background. So in a military background, you give an order and somebody does it, and Ben's not a soldier at all, and that's a whole other, and he doesn't. [01:11:11] Speaker A: Like him very much. [01:11:12] Speaker C: It was just a great way to mix things up and also complicate Hannah's perception of who this Professor McCoy is because he's acting very strange at different points. But no, I mean, it's always fun to write those moments and figure out when to lean in, more or less. But I think we do have fun with you get opportunities with who you have or don't have every episodE. So we didn't have Ernie this episode for scheduling purposes. There were a bunch of scheduling things that kind of moved pieces around, but what it can give you is opportunities. So the opportunity to have nobody available to go into the imaging chamber was a great element for the story because it forced this weird buddy energy between Ben and the guy who stole his. Also, you know, if you're team Ben and Addison and you don't like Tom very much, that's okay, because you can take that journey with Ben and start to see him as somebody else than just the was. It was just a great opportunity to mix things up, which we like to do. And then we also like to go to formula at times, too. So it's always fun to mix things up. [01:12:21] Speaker A: Well, I just really appreciated the fact, too, and you mentioned it, is that Ben really kind of comes around, especially towards the end, and I think part of that is because we start to, and this happens for the audience as well, because I will absolutely admit it's the first time that I felt like I really saw Tom as a human being. I was very intrigued at the end of 204 when Tom espouses theory about quantum leap being sacrificed, that was just sort of like, oh, that's really cool. But this is the first episode where I really felt like I saw Tom the human. And the wonderful thing that happens is that it happens in front of Ben as well. And so I feel like Ben is able to kind of see this human being as opposed know, the bastard that stole my wife or my fiance. And I really appreciated that because the scene's lovely, too know Peter and Raymond, and I just think that it's a really great moment there when they see the tree or when Tom sees the tree, which I really appreciated. Speaking of that tree, you hid some stuff throughout the course of this episode, didn't you, Drew? [01:13:27] Speaker C: Yes, but here's the thing. I'm not going to say who s and D are, because everyone has ideas. Some people think it's. I've heard people say is know Scott and it. Is it Sam and Donna? It's whatever you want the SMD to be. But maybe iT's the name of initials for podcasters. We don't know. We'll never know the answer for who those people are. [01:13:51] Speaker B: But. [01:13:53] Speaker C: That'S time travel. [01:13:56] Speaker A: Exactly. No, it was lovely. I liked it. Another thing that you threw in there is I noticed that Ben gets called Future Boy at one point, and I'm curious if that was intentional a little nod to the classic series. [01:14:11] Speaker C: Yes, it was. But also, there was a moment where I was toying the idea of, can we show the old show future boy on our TV from the original? Because in the original series. But that was in 1957, and you all would have crucified me for it, so I did not put that in. [01:14:31] Speaker A: Very wise. Very wise. The Internet can be unkind sometimes. [01:14:34] Speaker B: Huge credit to the writers room and drew for knowing that Oppenheimer was going to be a movie that would be a giant hit set in Princeton in the 1950s about nuclear power. [01:14:46] Speaker A: Who knew, right? [01:14:49] Speaker B: I watched the episode. It looks like we were inspired by Christmas. [01:14:57] Speaker A: Well, one of the things is, I mean, not for nothing, though, there is this wonderful parallel, for instance, between that film and this episode, certainly talking about the nature of atomic energy and being used as a weapon. And I love the fact that one of the moments that really stands out to me is when Ben rips the page out of the journal and hands it to Hannah. And my expectations were subverted because I just thought, like, oh, she's going to hide this page on her person or somewhere or something like that, and maybe it'll fall into the wrong hands and they'll have to get it back or something like that. And instead she burns it, like, right away. Eliza, I'll go ahead and throw this to bold. That's a bold choice. Can you talk about Hannah's decision to burn the page? [01:15:42] Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, that's Hannah for really. I think it's a really beautiful moment because within that scene, she's gone from, okay, buddy, I think you're losing your mind to. Wait. You're a time traveler. Okay, great. Well, how can we fix this to. I completely trust you. And if you're saying that this is going to change the course of time for the absolute worst, then in that split second moment, she goes, I'm going to make sure that this never gets into the wrong hands. And I love that about she and her relationship with Ben. I love that there is just instant trust and knowing between them. And he trusts her. He leaves her with the page, and she trusts him on his word and burns it. And I think that that speaks a lot to their. [01:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah, I have to give Dean credit for that scene because originally we had, like, story construction wise, the page was going to go with the journal, and Dean was just like, I don't believe either Moon would let it leave that house. So that's why that moment happens is because Hannah has photographic memory as a way to keep. [01:17:17] Speaker A: Some good, mean. [01:17:20] Speaker B: Again, Drew's idea. I just was sort of remarking, I feel like I don't believe Hannah would leave with of the one thing that these two characters have in common is like this incredible sort of moral compass. But it's one thing to write. She burns it. But the way Eliza does it, it's just so great. Burning the most important piece of paper in the end, that's exactly what that scene needed. [01:17:59] Speaker A: Well, it is interesting, too, to think about the fact that it is locked away in her head. Now. She remembers it, whether or not that means anything or not for the future, who knows? But, I mean, the fact that she remembers it is pretty cool. One of the things that I wanted to mention is that in an episode that is filled with so much fun and so much humor and adventure and action, there were some surprisingly moving moments throughout the course of the episode for me. And I mentioned obviously earlier when Tom comes out and says, I missed my wife today. I mean, it was just. I had to do everything I could not to just crumble. One of the other moments that stands out, of course, is the end of the episode, and I'd love to. Eliza, get your perspective on this first before I ask Drew about mean, it's so incredibly lovely. It's as magical as the time travel reveal. Out of everything that you could ask know, you ask what his name. It's just. It's beautiful. Can you talk a little bit about that and your perception of know why Hannah asks that. [01:19:07] Speaker D: Mean? Yeah. Credit to Drew on this. Like, it's just such a beautiful end to the episode. And I. I mean, you know, her asking that question, it's really, you know, out of all the things she could find out about the future or what he's done, where he's been, she's falling in love with him. She wants to know who she's falling in love with. That's the most important thing to her in that moment, and I love that. But shooting that scene on that day was so magical. I think it was just like lightning in a bottle. It was one of those perfect moments where the sun was setting. We had that golden hour moment. The crew were all locked in and knew exactly what they were doing. We knew what we were doing. I think we got it in a couple of takes because there's very little time for that perfect light to be where it was. And I remember after the second take, Drew came up to me crying. He was like, that was it. [01:20:33] Speaker C: So was Pamela. Our director was also crying. [01:20:36] Speaker B: We were both clear for the audience who's watching this drew is, like, six foot seven, which you would not know looking in the. Back me up. [01:21:05] Speaker A: Oh, yes, of course. Thank you so much, Dean. I really appreciate it. I'm so glad you were here, Elijah. [01:21:09] Speaker B: Let's do it again for two eight. [01:21:11] Speaker D: Sounds great. Thanks. [01:21:14] Speaker C: Yeah, I'll just. I'll just real quick say that we know our amazing DP. Anna Mortagani, was. Was very insistent on shooting that scene at the very end of the day. And you normally don't do your most important scene at the end of the day because you risk running out of time. And she was like, the light will be perfect. And she was so right. We had, like, rips, reflectors running out of frame as the camera turned. It was just one of those things where you have. The cast is so dialed in, the production team is so dialed in, and Pamela and I were at the monitor just being like, I can't believe we're getting it this, right. We're getting it just how it feels at its best in our minds. We're getting it even better on the day. So it's the greatest part of the job, right, is you watch someone take something from your imagination and make it real. And not just real, but you feel something deeper than even you can when you read. I just. I was so happy with what Ray and Eliza were able to bring to that scene. And she even brought a little, like, she's talking about electromagnetism, but she's also inviting something deeper. It's a tricky thing to pull off, but they did. And that's the moment that Pamela and I still talk about to this day. And there's a lot of magical moments in this episode. It was a very difficult episode to pull off. Princeton Fifty S is not easy. Costumes by Genevieve were amazing. The hair and makeup for Hannah, one of the first things she said was like, it's an indie movie with a Hitchcock blonde. And Pamela's like, I got it. Let's make that. Let's try and bring that. So I think I feel very lucky and fortunate that we had the cast and crew that we did in this episode, from ads to DPS to everything, to really realize the best version of it, because in our mind, it was like making a movie. And it has very sweeping and cinematic feel to the whole episode because we had just the best people working on it. [01:23:04] Speaker A: Yeah, it comes through time and time again. And in this episode specifically, it's absolutely true. It feels big in so many ways, and I can't wait to hear what everyone else thinks about it. Obviously, don't want to keep you guys too long, but I do have a couple of quick questions that I want to throw at you real quick. Drew. I want to talk to you about the decision, which I'm sure a lot of fans are going to love to have Tom, in particular as the hologram, get to do some hologrammy things and move through some walls. I do love that he tries to shake Ben's hand as well, not once, but twice. Talk about getting the opportunity to write some stuff that we don't always get to see with the holograms. [01:23:48] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, that's the fun of having somebody who's rusty at Something, is it gives you comedy, but it also gives a character room to grow. So whenever someone goes Jen. We've seen when Jen went in the first time in season one. It's a learning curve. It's different. It's weird, but it's know, you see a little bit of excitement, too, from Tom, which is different for him because he's getting to literally rediscover his own past, but he's on mission. But he's a hologram. So whenever someone's. He's such a capable, unflappable guy, that to show him a little bit rusty or bad at something is, it's. It's just something different for him to play and then also just to see his and Ben's working relationship evolve to get to a place where Ben is listening at the end of the episode to the is, you know, trying to take some of these directives to save the day. It's fun to. [01:24:44] Speaker A: Yeah, I completely agree, Eliza. One of the things that I love about Hannah is that throughout the course of this episode, especially, she just shows so much agency and oftentimes pulling Ben out of the frying Pan just as much as the reverse could be true. Can you talk a little bit about the fact that she is kind of this active heroine in this episode and that she's not know by any stretch any kind of damsel in distress or anything like that? And we see this intellectual side so often, but we also get to see this more physically adventurous side of her as well. [01:25:15] Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, that's what I love about playing Hannah is that by no means a damsel in distress. She's so switched mean. It really is a joy to be able to play a woman, especially in that time period, who is so going against the grain in every respect. I think know one thing that makes Hannah so special. She. She is more than she know. She looks the of. She's very put together and beautiful. But what she's got going on under the hood is, like, next level. She is so quick thinking and funny and smart, and she has so many layers, and I love that about her. [01:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah, well, I mean, even something as simple as the use of the stellarator and using it to play the gag on Ben in the beginning, but then, of course, using it at the end to kind of save the day and get the sword out of Donovan's hand, it's lovely. And I just think that one of the things that comes shining through over the course of this episode, and we saw the seeds of it, quite frankly, in her first appearance, is that playful quality lends itself to this very kind of active, adventurous side as well. And then throughout the course of this episode, that intellectual side shines through. But so does the romantic side a little bit, which is really nice as well, because it's just this. We keep getting these new dimensions to the character, which I imagine has got to be a lot of fun, right? [01:26:56] Speaker D: Yeah. There's something so open about her. She's open to a lot of things that people might think impossible. And one of those things is as simple as falling in love and finding your person. And it's like she accepts whatever situation she's thrown into with such grace and a sense of humor. And I just think that that's so. [01:27:31] Speaker A: Absolutely. And again, it really shines through in this episode. And I feel like the fact that this is the first time that we really get to see Hannah front and center, it's incredibly successful. It's lovely. And I would be remiss if I also didn't mention one of my favorite moments is when know kind of lets slip that her research is never going to be published with her name on it. And the shift there is so beautifully done. The disappointment and the kind of heartbreak we see in just that single little simple moment. I loved it, and I wanted to take the chance to be able to say that to you. [01:28:08] Speaker D: Thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, I feel very lucky that I get to play this character and get to have those moments and to show so much light and shade in what is really the unique thing about this show is that every episode is like a movie, and there's so much pace to it. There's a beginning, middle and end. And to play a character who spans outside of that and who has so much nuance is really exciting. And I can't wait to read what's coming up next. [01:28:43] Speaker A: I really can't. Well, I can imagine. I'm very excited for you, and I'm so glad that you're able to get back to work and talk about this stuff and do all this. And I'm just so pleased when Drew said that you would be joining us, you had to pinch me because I almost didn't believe it. So I'm so glad that you got to be here, and I'm really grateful for that. [01:29:04] Speaker D: Me too. [01:29:06] Speaker A: And, Drew, I did want to throw a couple more quick questions your way, if you don't mind. One of the things that we didn't get a chance to talk about at all yet is, of course, the story back at the project with Ian and what they're going through back at the project and everything that they're having to navigate. One of the other scenes that was really kind of one of those emotionally moving moments is seeing Ian and Rachel come together in the parking garage, and as Ian is asking for help, and Rachel's response is so lovely because it's set up in a way that almost feels like we're going to get some weird know from Rachel or something like that, and instead, she just simply says, I love you, and there's just this beautiful moment between them. And actually, pardon me, before I go much further, I know that Alice uses she they pronouns, but I didn't know if the character of Rachel was written to also use she they pronouns or she pronouns in this case. [01:30:05] Speaker C: Do you know, currently the Rachel character has she pronouns as of. [01:30:12] Speaker A: Okay, okay, excellent. Thank you for that clarification. So that moment when know tells them I love you and of know she's going to help, that just feels like a big moment, especially with the nature of their relationship that we've seen prior. Can you talk a little bit about that particular mean? We're. [01:30:35] Speaker C: I think it's sort of a culmination of their story thus far, which is that there's always secrets Ian has kept or reasons to have distance that has affected the relationship, both in season one and in season two. Rachel's clearly more in the fold in season two, but there were things that Ian was not sharing that we learned in 204. So it felt like this was the time to really show that Ian had learned their lesson and was ready to open up at the worst possible time, which is, I'm going to be open and honest with you in a way that can actually put you at risk. So it's the thing you're always asking your partner to do, but it's the hardest version of that, of help. But I think a little theme run City episode is that help from person, people you care about, is not a weakness. It's a great thing. So Ben is asking Hannah for help in a way that McCoy probably didn't, and they succeed in their story. And in the story, Ian is asking Rachel for help, even at great risk. And by doing that, they have a shot at outmaneuvering whoever this mysterious antagonist is. So it was great for their journey, but also the risk of technology falling in the wrong hands and all those things that are happening in the leap is also happening modern day. So it fit together nicely, but it was an important step for the two of them to take just in their relationship. [01:32:01] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. And again, I thought that it was done very beautifully. One other thing that I wanted to mention, of course, is that Jen gets some awesome stuff to do throughout the course of the episode in bringing the humor, because so much of what she does as the hologram in this episode is just so humorous. When she pops in and scares Ben, when she kind of needs Ben's prompting to. It's like, I need your help here. Tell me what to do in this situation. And I just love the fact that she's written not only as comic relief, obviously, there's some very active stuff she has to do later in the episode, but when kind of approaching the character of Jen, who hasn't necessarily had a ton to do up to this point in the season, and getting to see her kind of in that observer chair, what was your approach to bringing her back in? Because we hadn't seen her as an observer, of course, sinceong for the defense. [01:32:57] Speaker C: Well, truth be told, originally, Jen was not the hologram of the episode, so that's a bit of a Scoop. Originally, Ian was going to win rock, paper, scissors, and then we had a very last minute scheduling emergency where we did not actually have Mason for that chunk of the story, so it suddenly switched. And so six and seven sort of swapped around who was on hologram duty a little bit. Originally, the idea was that it would be Ian and Ben bonding over their mutual admiration and love and sort of nerd affection for Einstein and physics and Princeton and holy crap, look where we are when that came out. And that was a lovely. That would have been really cute to see the two of them, that infectious joy. What it gave us when it became Jen was just a contrast. That was really nice, which is that Jen is not exactly from that world. Jen is more cybercrime and hustling background gone better. So it just gave us an outsider perspective and more humor to play in terms of, like, it's a giant steampunk hamster maze. It's not really anything to her other than or whispering in the hallway when she doesn't have to. So it gave us some fun stuff to play. But also, I just thought Nanrisa was super. It was a very cute dynamic because even though this is not her world, her seeing Ben in his world, in his dream leap to some degree, it's adorable to her. It's very sweet. And she is bonding with him over this thing that it's his thing, but she gets to see it through his eyes, which is nice. [01:34:34] Speaker A: Yeah, well, it's so great that I feel like it feels, for whatever reason, more this season, and maybe that's just because we've had fewer episodes and there's been more interaction, but it just feels really nice to see more interaction between the folks at the project and know through use of the various holograms and stuff. So I've really enjoyed that aspect of know. Did you know ahead of time that you were writing the kiss between Ben and Hannah? Did you know that was coming, or is that something that you were just like, I'm going to have them kiss. [01:35:05] Speaker C: Caitlin Bassett loves to tease me about this because I've written a kiss in every one of Ben's episodes. He got kissed episode. He got kissed in the Bodyguard episode. I felt like. [01:35:19] Speaker A: But this is the first time that Ben kisses anyone other than Addison. [01:35:23] Speaker C: That was a question in the room, and I felt strongly that at this point in Ben's journey and in the season that we needed to see him initiate something that he wants. Because I think the powerful thing about the episode when I watched it is that every week he helps someone and bonds with them and falls into a dynamic with them. But this was an episode where I really feel like you're seeing this unspoken yearning from him. And Ray underplays it so beautifully. Like that moment in the hallway where you can't tell her that they met before. He's desperately yearning for this connection as himself, not just as the person he's inhabiting that Hannah is able to see on some level. She is seeing who he is. She doesn't know what it means yet. She can't put it all together till later, but she is. Recognizing him and to be recognized and be seen is a big deal, especially in a lonely existence where you're leaping all the time. So I just felt like that's the strongest choice for him as our protagonist, is that I'm not going to wait. I want this moment that's so vital and so fleeting to matter the most. It can. And so that's why it happens. It has to be something that Ben feels like he's in a new chapter, and it's not a story we would have told in season one. He was in a committed relationship, but he's at a big point in his life now where he's searching for something that he can't have. [01:36:52] Speaker A: Yeah, it's lovely, too, because one of the things, obviously, that we talked a lot about on the podcast or in the classic series in particular, was the element of consent and how often know there was this kind of OD sort of idea of like, well, they don't know that that's not the person that they think they're kissing. But I love the fact, of course, that Hannah knows that this is someone else, that this is Ben. And I love the fact that that was the way that this occurred as opposed to it being some sort of. It's not Ben taking something. Right. [01:37:28] Speaker C: Yeah. He's not taking advantage of somebody in front of him who thinks he's somebody else. And also, we're getting into a little bit of the emotional reality of what it's like to be this time traveling Guardian angel, which is that he does have these really intense connections with people, and then he never sees them again. And that's a hard, hard part of the job, is that he can. It's like being an actor, but with much higher stakes, is you have this found family or this found romance, whatever it is, and you're ripped away and have to go on to the next. And so having a moment where he can just talk about what it's like to be him to somebody who knows who he really is, that's a form of intimacy that he doesn't always get to experience. And it was just a beautiful moment to get. That felt like, when I watched that kiss at the end, it feels a little bit like the old series, like those moments that you could end an episode on, but it feels like it's a huge beat for the character, because even in trilogy, I don't think Abigail ever knew who he really was. So it does feel like a new territory. [01:38:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, and one of the things, too, that I love about his description of his life now, this is my life, is that there's some positivity and some optimism to, you know, you accomplish in a few short lines of dialogue this lovely thing, which is to give us kind of the full scope of Ben's feelings on being a leaper. Yeah, it's kind of lonely and this is all I get to do, but I get to meet so many wonderful people, and I get to do. It just feels really complete, and it doesn't feel like I'm just being left on a downer. It doesn't feel like it's all sunshine and roses. I really love that that's what we get, as opposed know one side or the other. I'm just your stock hero and have to love and accept this, or I'm moody and depressed. [01:39:29] Speaker C: I'll give major props on that to director Pamela Romanowski, who directed leap Darre Pete last season, and who did just the most phenomenal job of this episode, both in prep, on set, and in the edit, that I didn't get to participate in it at all. She cut this thing together so beautifully with our editor, Piper. But one piece of direction she gave Ray during that scene was like. Because there were takes that really. You were like, oh, man, this is such a heavy burden. But she just gave one adjustment where it was just about like, it's beautiful. It's sad, but it's beautiful. And so it had that little bit of positivity to the performance that gave it one extra color. And I love that. It's my favorite scene in the episode, the whole episode, for all of its fun twists and turns and sword fights and magnets, it's all building to a moment, building to that ending. So it feels satisfying to me every time I watch it. [01:40:31] Speaker A: Yes, with good reason. And I love the fact that we can kind of end here. But the idea that in that particular moment, what you just described is the writer, the actor, the director, the editor, we talked earlier about the cinematographer, what she had to do with that scene, like that sense of collaboration, to accomplish something like that and accomplish something that's just so beautiful and feels like such a wonderful way to close out this really beautiful episode, because, like you said, it's this wonderful adventure. I mean, one of the first comments I made to you after I saw the episode is it's what I would have played in my backyard and yet so much more. And I really appreciate that. And it definitely has those four H's, and it just feels like such a wonderful, beautiful place. Again, I hope I'm not making too much of a big deal out of it, but coming after the actor strike ending, coming with where we are just at this time of year, coming after the last five episodes, it just feels like such. This beautiful kind of like, exhale of like, wow, we get to do this even as an audience, right? We get to visit this world every week. So kudos to you, to everyone involved. It's a really great episode. [01:41:50] Speaker C: Thanks so much. Really appreciate. And again, it really was a village, and Martin and Dean had. They've had a really tremendous vision for the season, and it was really fun to tell this installment of it. [01:42:06] Speaker A: Yeah, I lied. I have one last question. [01:42:09] Speaker C: Okay, one last. [01:42:10] Speaker A: Somebody will say one last. Why did I not ask this question? So, in 202, in Ben and Teller, there's a moment where Ben knocks down a false wall and gives the impression that he has these superpowers based off of the reaction around him. And he's just sort of like, oh, Pilates. And it seems to kind of know, hint at the fact that Ben's physical being is in charge here. Right. But of course, I think every other episode is pointed to, and of course, specifically in secret history with the limp and the pain caused from the wound that McCoy took in Normandy, that, no, he is inhabiting this other person's physical space. Can you talk about that and maybe give a definitive answer for viewers that are a little cloudy on that? [01:42:58] Speaker C: Well, I agree with your interpretation because I think the boxing episode I wrote in season one definitely leaned into that part of the story, which is like, Ben was in the body of an athlete with muscle memory to box, and so he had to learn the moves, but his body would be able to, that he was inhabiting could keep up with it. And in 105, in the Western episode, he was in an older man, and Ben portrayed, when you see him moving around the town, he's not like a spring chicken. So what I'd say about 202 is that it's a piece of cheap drywall that they even make. I think there's dialogue about how it's not like a full, like a real wall. It's just cheap. So on one hand, it's not like a big, thick wall, and on second hand, I think to me, that moment is less about Ben having a man's strength and more just like Ben's mind in that woman's body is saying, I'm going to freaking do this with a box cutter. It's out of character for her more than. It's just like, wow, you're so powerful. It's more just like Ben is trying to come up. [01:44:02] Speaker B: I think he's trying to come up. [01:44:03] Speaker C: With a bullshit excuse for why he's Trying to cut into a wall, but he's not using a drill. He's using a box cutter on Drywall. So I'd say it's a gag, but I don't think it's invalidating the rules. I think it's what Ben would do, and I think Grandma could have done it herself, had been her idea. That's what. [01:44:21] Speaker A: You're right. I think you're absolutely, completely. Yes, you've got me. I'm satisfied. Drew Lindo, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. I just want to give you all the credit in the world because you helped put all of this together today to bring in Dean and Eliza as well. And it means a lot to me and it means a lot to the viewers. And thank you for your work on the episode, but thank you for that as well. [01:44:46] Speaker C: Well, thank you for covering our show and all that you do to embrace the community, because I will say that the leaper community is just an amazing positive. It really carries the spirit of what the shows have both been about. So that has been a welcome relief in the dark, sordid corners of the Internet. It's a nice little ray of light. So next time. [01:45:12] Speaker A: Absolutely. Well, I can't wait to see what's next. And thank you so much for bringing all of this together today to talk about secret history. It's a fantastic episode. I think people are going to just love it. I can't wait to see what JJ Lindell's poster is going to look. Yeah, it's always such a pleasure, Drew. This is like, I think, what? Like the fifth time that you've done the show or something like that because. [01:45:39] Speaker C: You did a couple. This should be the last one. We should just call it now because. [01:45:44] Speaker A: It'S going to get on a high note. Right? Yeah. Too much. But the thing is, look, is if you keep going, then you can take the crown from. [01:46:00] Speaker C: The red rope at the table with the name on the flacker there, so. All right. Thank you so much, Tim. [01:46:09] Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. Take care, Drew.

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